[Quix]

I hope this is treated as a worthy discourse topic. It's been smack in the middle of the nitty gritties of my life for at least 45 years.

I would love for a wide diversity of perspectives on the above.

Examples of successes and failures of the above would also be most welcome.

[Quix]

END TIMES PING LIST AND OTHERS PING

Would appreciate your comments on the above. It’s one of my growing edges.

[bremenboy]

a lot of questions i will try to answer each one at a time

1. What is the nature of God's Love

will it starts with the fact that we can't fully understand It but we can know it

Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God.

I would submit that God's love is as deep as his Justice. With God it either the full blissing of his love and mercy or the full wrath of his vengeance and justice.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sins, it shall die. A son shall not bear the iniquity of the father. And a father shall not bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.

[AlbionGirl]

How do we deal with perceptions of receivers and others that we haven't been loving when our spirit indicates and God indicates that we have?

Quix, I'm going to jump in here because I can see you're undergoing an 'examination of conscience.' That's always a good thing.

I don't think true humility refuses confrontation, but I do think true humility prompts us to use language carefully. The long-standing misunderstanding or hard feelings between RCs and Protestants is something that's made immediately manifest when we can write while zealous and post while we haven't given time to proper reflection. I've done that myself, many times. Sometimes enflaming a person's conscience is worthy, sometimes you can do that with very humble words, but when that happens you don't usually feel the need to think much of it afterwards because the language you used was so obviously non-confrontational.

I'm not here to defend RCism. There are plenty here who can do that more ably than I can. Besides being the mongrel Christian that I am, I'm just beginning to learn my own way through doctrine and doctrinal mine fields, etc.

I wish you could read my '52 Baltimore Cathechism. It beats the latest version, by far, at least the parts of it that I've read. The reason that I wish you could read it, is that while there would be much you would disagree with, there would be much there that you would genuinely admire.

Sometimes when you really allow yourself to experience another's point of view, with some sympathy, that is, when you come to the defense of your own views, that are in opposition to that other point of view, your defense can become rock solid.

For the record, I do see you as a loving person, this post is very good example of that. If you've done something to hurt somebody, intentional or not, and that other person doesn't want to forgive and forget, just let it go.

I don't mean to be preachy, so forgive me if I come across that way.

[Campion]

[Love] does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth 1 Cor 13:6

If I accuse my brother of committing a sin in his heart, and he denies it, and I continue to insist that he does (thereby insisting that I can see into his heart, and calling his testimony of what is in his heart a lie), am I acting in a way that "rejoices not over wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth"?

[bremenboy]

Is there any difference in Christ's Love?

That is a tough question

hear is what I know

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succor them that are tempted.

Heb 4:15 For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

I would say that The love is equal but their maybe a difference concerning compassion. However the love for the father is paramount and when he returns he will execute judgment to those who receive Justice.

[Marysecretary]

Is this what you pinged me about in FReepmail? I, too, asked God to give me a ministry of love when I first received Christ 38 years ago.

[grame]

Obedience is the key, not results.

What if God asked you to love someone who never was capable of loving you back. Are you a failure? Was your heart in obedience to God or to the letter of the law?

I will stand alone before God in the end, will I prove to be a good and faithful servant?

[hosepipe]

Love = Sacrifice.. exactly and explicitly..

What you love you sacrifice for what you do not love you will not sacrifice for.. all in degrees.. Love is sacrifice..

Love, Sacrifice, Service, and Giving are synonyms..

[Gamecock]

a. Love is clearly commanded. That makes it law.

b. Many people approach love as somehow being an improvement on the OT law. It is not. I would say love is the commandments cranked up to the nth degree. Tell me not to steal my neighbors lawnmower, that I can do. Tell me to love the bum that I pass on the street corner and it becomes much harder. Wesley tried to dilute love down to a feeling in the heart. I don't think so, it is action.

c. Law serves three purposes:
-to provide moral order in the world. The law is written on peoples hearts and that is why in general we live in a society that doesn't run around pillaging, pillaging and burning. There are of course breakdowns, and that is where the courts come in, which were also ordained by God. Of course they are made up of sinners, so that is not the perfect solution.
-even with the law written on our hearts we rebel. Abortion, adultery, lying, stealing. The law is there to break the elect and show us that we are in the worst possible condition imaginable without the Gospel.
-the law is a schoolmaster for the Christian. This is how we should live, not to save ourselves but as a loving response to God who saved us from the curse of the law. In response to the command to love others, we should take a deep interest in, and take action on, what those around us are going through.

Love includes telling people the truth about sin (which is essentially flipping God off) the consequences of such, and the great rescue plan that was put in place from the beginning and finished one afternoon about 2,000 years ago.

Do we love our neighbors enough to do that???

[John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?]

How can one reconcile the fact that God’s love has been shead abroad in our hearts yet one does not love like God?

[HarleyD]

1. What is the nature of God's Love?

God can't stand anything less than perfection. God's nature demands perfection. We are less than perfect and subject to God's wrath. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Rom 5:8) If one truly understand how God hates sins, they will truly understand God's love in dealing with our sins.

2. Is there any difference in Christ's Love??

No. Our Lord hates sin. Our Lord loves us to freely give His life for our sin.

3. How do we reconcile, manage living out God's model of Fierce Love AND Fierce Severity?

God hates sin. We as believers have been saved from the "wages of sin". God expects us to live like sons of the Living God and He has provided the means to do so. When we fail (which we will) there is judgment upon us because God hates sin. These degrees of judgment varies but they serve to teach us and to help us grow. When David sinned there was judgment placed upon him (sometimes long term) but they all taught him valuable lessons.

4. Is Christian Love 99% warm fuzzy and 1% severe or what?

Love is doing the right things. It is speaking the truth. It is standing up for areas that are just. Christ throwing the money changers out of the temple was just as much an act of love as Elijah chopping up the priest of Baal. It is also helping others as God has helped us.

5. How do we discern when to share the warm fuzzy aspects of Love and when the ruthless severity?

You can't in my mind. When Augustine was asked by a person how should they live for God, Augustine replied, "Love God, and do what you want." Luther had a similar reply to a cobber who asked him a similar question, "Make a better shoe."

There is great wisdom in these answers. God works through every believer to bring out His will. It is persumptuous for us to think that if we throw five bucks into the offering we are doing a service to God. The children of Israel thought that they would conquer the mountain for God ((Num 14) much to their disappointment. They were persumptuous thinking things rest upon their shoulders. Joshua got a lesson in this when he asked the angel who side he was on and the angel replied neither but the Lord's. (Josh 6)

We can't do anything without God. God will effect His purpose through us in unknown ways. We are to rest on His promise that He will bring about His work in us. If we think we're following the footsteps of Christ, chances are we aren't.

6. How do we keep an accurate, discerning check on our motives as well as our actions--doing what we can to insure that they conform to God's Christian Love?

Trust God to bring about His will in your life. Rest in His word and through prayer.

7. How do we Love whole-heartedly as unto The Lord while still being human?

Love is doing what is right. Read His word. He wants to fellowship with you and the only way He talks to us is through His scripture. Pray to Him. The only way He reveals what His will is for our lives is through prayer.

8. How responsible are we for the results of our efforts to Love?

The purpose of sons of God is to grow to be more like Christ. God is growing us. Christians cannot fail to be what God wants us to be. The responsibility doesn't rest with us but with our trust that God will complete what He has started.

9. How long do we wait to judge whether we were truly Loving, or not?

Until we are in our glorified bodies. We will never be truly loving because of our corrupt nature.

10. How do we deal with perceptions of receivers and others that we haven't been loving when our spirit indicates and God indicates that we have?

We can't deal with "perceptions". If we're unkind then God expects us to fest up. If not, it's sin and God will deal with it. If people perceive us to be unloving, we can't help that. God must sort it all out. God knows that we'll fail. God helps people see pass our failures to bring them to Him. The sin could be on the receiver's part.

11. Is the Severity of God less loving than God's warm fuzzies?

I'm not sure what is God's "warm fuzzies". Love is doing what is right. God expects and trains His believers to do what is right. God is not severe but is a gracious Father who is training and couching us to become equip for His kingdom. He shields us and protects us for His name sake, all the while leading us through the desert.

12. How can we minimize errors in Loving?

Love God and do what you want. He will direct your path.

[newberger]

3. How do we reconcile, manage living out God's model of Fierce Love AND Fierce Severity?

4. Is Christian Love 99% warm fuzzy and 1% severe or what?

5. How do we discern when to share the warm fuzzy aspects of Love and when the ruthless severity?

Quix, This thread has troubled me for the past 24 hours since I first discovered it. I even lost some sleep thinking how to respond. I will give you my vote at the end of this post but I think that you will guess it before then.

First of all, let me say that although I am sure from all your comments all of your questions are serious and heartfelt BUT the questions listed above are a false dichotomy.

Love is defined neither by “warm fuzzies” nor by “fierce severity”. I would certainly use fierce severity to defend my family and warm affection to calm a child but neither emotion or mood makes my actions loving. Love is something else. In other words, your very questions are creating unwanted confusion.

I am surprised that no one yet has quoted the central passage on love , I Corinthians 13 to help in your quandary. As you are well aware, this chapter, sandwiched between two chapters on the use of spiritual gifts provides the believers at Corinth with a godly alternative to ego and power as a motivation for exercising the gifts of the Spirit.

Chapter 13 is completely misused by those who think in terms of “warm fuzzies” or gentle poetry or pictures of newly-weds or little puppies. It is a non-negotiable statement of what our motivation must be in the Christian life. Paul tells us that without it we are NOTHING!

So, what is real love like as a motivation? Here is the English Standard Version of verses 4 – 6 broken into bite-sized statements:

Love is patient and kind

* love does not envy or boast

* it is not arrogant or rude.

* It does not insist on its own way;

* it is not irritable or resentful;

* it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.

* Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Now, remember that this, not warm fuzzies OR fierceness, is supposed to govern our use of the gifts and our ministry.

I do not believe that we have authority to do everything God does UNLESS we have the necessary divine attributes to go with it.

You cannot rightly call people hypocrites and sons of the devil unless we know their hearts as Jesus did.

You cannot use the strong language with people that Jesus did unless you know that they can receive it as the woman at the well did (John 4). Remember Jesus “knew what was in man”. Unless you are given divine revelation, be extremely careful. Follow I Cor 13.

You most certainly cannot take away the lives of someones children, his entire wealth, and his health as God permitted Job to experience unless you are able to replace all of those things.

Your fundamental responsibility is to obey the list above.

I have seen the phrase, “believes all things, hopes all things” understood as implying that we are to always hope for and expect the best of others.

In the years I have spent on this forum, the mutual attacks I have seen by fundamentalists, Baptists, Catholics, Orthodox, Reformed, Church of Christ, etc. etc. has sickened me. Not because of debate and disagreement. I enjoy a good debate hand have strong theological views. Rather, my disgust is because Christian Freepers discard I Cor 13:4-6 as a rule of life. Our hateful wrangling brings disgrace on the name of our Lord.

I vote “counterproductive”.