Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
I don’t suppose, Mary, that it is true for you in your current struggle staying alive . . . but it has been true for me and for a number I’ve met . . .
sometimes, the fiery furnaces get soooo hot . . . and the long dark nights of the soul seemingly so excruciatingly horrendous AND ENDLESS
that one is tempted to wonder if God is sadistic.
Mercifully, He IS THE OPPOSITE. But in the midst of the fiery furnace . . . one can wonder . . . being human and all.
There are things a lot worse than pain. Pain is very instructive . . . for the teachable.
And, it can be an offering, a sacrifice . . . not in a chosen masochistic sort of way . . . sick is still sick and crazy thinking is still crazy thinking. But when that is one’s thrownness—one best offer it up as a sacrifice to Him who bore our sorrows and was/is touched with the feelings of our infirmities and who stands WITH US IN the fiery furnace.
***For the good Catholic, his church is the only church in town, and so his duty to defend Mother Church takes precedence over institutional reform inasmuch as the institution, if deemed to be divine, is beyond reform.***
Interesting premise.
Now this little quote is interesting. We in the Church understand that things within it need to change and they are. The whole deal with Vatican II dealt with needed change, and we are dealing with the misunderstandings and implementations of the recommedations.
***One would think if that if the Mother Church was indeed devine it wouldn’t bounce around between Latin Mass and the common language, or any of the other issues that just seem to keep bouncing around in St Pete’s.***
One must keep one’s perspective on what is doctrine versus what is the furniture.
And when it comes to this forum, or any thread of theological interest among the brethren, I’m very selective about the issues on which I will engage. That is God's will for us.
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. – 2 Timothy 2:23-26
My reply was essentially that forgiveness is God’s will for us - and He will forgive us precisely the same way we forgive others - and if we do not forgive, He will turn a deaf ear to our prayers.
Personally, I cannot afford to have my sins in God's mind. Therefore, I choose instead to forgive and forget – asking for the Spirit’s help in the forgetting department, trusting Him and being confident that I have the same kind of forgiveness from God:
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. [Whereof] the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin. – Hebrews 10:12-18
As to provocative behavior per se among those advocating the Gospel of Jesus Christ, regardless of who is doing it, I submit that we should always have this mind:
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. - Philippians 1:15-18
Trudeau’s father was a rich French Canadian lawyer; his mother was descended from wealthy Scots bankers.
***actually, the Jews of that time probably spoke Greek, seeing as how that was the common language of the Roman empire. Jerusalem ws a very cosmopolitan city, with Syrian, Greek, Latin, Hebrew and Aramaic all being spoken.***
Greek was the lingua franca of the Mideast, the English of its day. Hebrew was largely disused except by the religious in religious texts. Latin was only spoken by the Romans or those in the area dealing with Roman rule.
Masterfully, accurately, Biblically put according to God’s Priorities, as usual.
Stretching to reach the standard but at least I see it as a standard worth stretching to reach, by His Grace.
Exactly. Where did THEY get their information? Certainly not from scripture.
Of a Truth, all things work together for the good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose (Romans 8) - and that includes pain we might suffer, if it is for Christ's sake.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.
Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. - 2 Corinthians 12:8-10
AMEN. Precious Scriptures rarely appreciated for the wealth of treasure in them.
***Sometimes, Mark, you just have to trust the leadership that you KNOW.***
It all goes back to God and the teachings of Jesus Christ.
***If I am filled with the Holy Spirit, do you think He will allow deception? I KNOW in my spirit when something doesn’t seem right or is against scripture. He is my guide and He has sent others to help us along the way.***
The problem with that is a Gnostic indwelling belief that self-reinforces belief in one’s own righteousness, usually culminating in the belief of others’ unrighteousness since there will be conflict of view.
***So I guess our question for our friend MarkBsnr is whether he considers Vatican 1 with respect to the infallibility of the Pope, ecclesial in nature and subject to change or if he considers it doctrine unable to be changed.***
When speaking ex cathedra, Vatican I affirms it to be doctrine. And that is how I consider it.
*** I only know of Christians writing icons. They weren’t painted by Protestants, that’s for sure.***
Didn’t you get the memo that the True Church (tm) went underground for 1500 years with their KJV Bibles (in English) until Gutenberg was able to free the millions of KJV Bibles locked up by the Church in gigantic warehouses?
***Why do you feel the necessity to carry water for MarkBsnr? He seems like a intelligent enough person to handle his own affairs. If he felt slighted in some way he could have responded directly to me. ***
Appreciate the kind words.
We are engaged in give and take on an online forum. I understood it as a portion of an ongoing and sometimes fierce discussion. So be it.
***Here’s the message
Repent: Throw away the idols and superstitions of Rome.***
We have. Now we just have to convince you to throw away the man made theologies and superstitions rooted in the Reformation.
Probazbly not. Anyway, I am open to it. Seek and ye shall find. :)
Bullseye! The other name for it is religious pride.
Along with the printing presses that were discovered just around 33 AD, but the hierarchs and popes of Rome made sure no one had access to them lest everyone got to read and interpret the Bible any way they wish? Yeah, I got that memo. :)
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