Posted on 03/17/2008 8:12:36 AM PDT by Ottofire
GRPL “Freely choose to read this” PING!
>ducks<
Amen!
Thanks for posting this. I’m going to send it to a friend who thinks God is finished with him.
God is not a respecter of persons, which is exactly why he allows us to freely choose to obey or disobey Him. Paul still needed his sins to be washed away when he encountered Ananias in Damascus (Acts 22:16).
I was listening to RC Sproul the other night. He gave a great 'lesson' on hell. At the end of it, he said that if you aren't already a Christian, you should really take hell seriously, since God does.
I couldn't help but think to myself, "but Dr. Sproul, if they aren't regenerated already, they can't take it seriously. . .right?"
What a great thought to start the week with!
>God is not a respecter of persons, which is exactly why he allows us to freely choose to obey or disobey Him. Paul still needed his sins to be washed away when he encountered Ananias in Damascus (Acts 22:16).
If God is not a respecter of persons, then why is it so important for Him to respect our free will? We are the clay and He is the potter, He shapes us according to His will, not ours.
***Paul said that God set me apart before I was born, and then on the Damascus road called me by his grace (Galatians 1:15). This means that between Pauls birth and his call on the Damascus road he was an already-chosen but not-yet-called instrument of God (Acts 9:15; 22:14). ****
And there are still some who believe Paul was not saved until he got wet. In fact, one has already showed up.
How come you only seem to show up to badmouth the beliefs of others?
I think it's all a matter of perspective. Looking at it in human terms (and how can we not) it sure seems like we have free will to make our own decisions. But if you are attempting to see things from God's position outside of time - He already knows the beginning and the end. And also, how can He be anything other than sovereign?
Yet we are still called to pray to Him and to spread the Good News to all the world. I think that means we can be an instrument that God uses for His sovereign decisions. And I am comfortable with saying yes, I was chosen in Him from the foundation of the world but I'm also comfortable with saying yes, I made a decision for Christ.
marinamuffy
Sorry, mankind was dead in trespasses and sin, spiritually dead bodies do not make choices. Not only this but the flesh that has not returned to the ground, by default will operate under the desires of Sin (Romans).
In this context the words of Christ, repeated in the Gospel of John are explicit - "No one comes unto me unless the Father draws Him". Thus the Lord's calling the Apostle Paul makes sense. Thus the Lord had to spiritually take out the "heart of stone" and give him a "heart of flesh" and He had to regenerate his mind to hold faith, even to the point that Paul could give the evidence of faith through his confession.
Salvation is of the Lord - it is not of man least anyone should boast.
Man thinks his confession is a big deal, but when the believer is in heaven he will see all that God has done for him and bow down and worship saying "The Lord has done it ALL!"
I have no problem with the Scriptural teaching that God calls mankind to salvation. This in no way contradicts the responsibility of man to respond to the call and accept the gift of salvation on God’s terms. If Paul was already cleansed of his sins, then why did he need them to be washed away in baptism (Acts 22:16)?
Baptism (water) is a outward sign of obedience and the inward change that takes place in Salvation.
Scripture does not teach that water baptism symbolizes an already existing salvation. Water baptism does symbolize the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
marinamuffy,
I actually totally agree with you. As a believer of compatabilist free will, I see that God put the taste for Him in my heart. Before being moved by the Spirit, I had no such taste for him and would continue to refuse the general call.
However, any thought that I freely chose Him without Him first taking me out of the mass of the damned is, I feel, completely unbiblical. God is the prime mover in this reaction, I was moved upon. He is the shaper of the clay, the clay has no say in its shape or its use for honor or dishonor.
I did not nor could not choose to be a wine-cup nor a chamber-pot. He chose our use and how He was going to use us.
Here is, I believe, the essence of “free will”.
Before he is called (elected, saved, transformed, whatever you want to call it)man has the “Free Will” to sin or not sin. Those are his choices.
After his call, man has three choices: sin, not sin, or please God.
No one who is “Dead in Sin” can please God. Only those who are free from sin’s ravages are “Free” to please God.
***How come you only seem to show up to badmouth the beliefs of others?***
Strange, I’m not badmouthing Ottofire, only those who think they only have a corner on salvation.
Not according to Romans, man's free will alone works within the range of sin: 3:10 "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD ; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
Why do we not understand the part where it says "THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD"?? Why do we not understand the word "NONE"??
The doctrine that man's free will can choose God is based on a misunderstanding of Sin and the Scriptures. Since this verse is in both the Old and New Testaments, why do we not believe it??
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