'Birth pains' have begun (End Days Alert) [Open]

Read 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10. Most people stop at the part that says Jesus will come as a thief in the night and cut their brains off. Read the verses after that and he says that we are not in darkness and should KNOW these things. You can know these signs if we are diligent and aware. As Christians I was surprised to find almost no teachers teaching Jewish Feasts and culture and customs. Some churches were even hostile to Jews and their traditions. Jesus was a Jew. The Apostles were Jews( except Luke, I think). Jesus preached in synagogues on Saturday, not Sunday. There never has been any change in His Commandments. We are the ones that saw fit to confuse the subject.

If Jesus has written the calendar of events from the beginning and has set things in motion with the Sun and Moon, then it makes sense to keep the appointed days in mind when preaching prophesy. If He timed His first coming with Passover, Unleavened Bread and First Fruits, It makes sense that the fall Festivals would also be kept on the same schedule. We just never know the year it might happen, but we should be looking each year on those dates. The guy on the DVD just went to the trouble to find out the year the Solar and Lunar eclipses happened. The 49 weeks spoken of in Daniel will end in 2014 and the Jubilee year starts in 2015. Jesus came in a Jubilee year, and Moses came down from the mountain( for the 2nd time) in a Jubilee year. Solomon's temple was dedicated in a Jubilee year on Feast of Tabernacles. Its a pattern that keeps repeating over and over Yom Kippur is the Day God judges, and right after judgment, He comes to Tabernacle with His people. So if you look at Jerusalem being united with Israel on 6-7-47 and count the stated days into the future, you get Yom Kippur 2015. You have the Solar and Lunar eclipses that year spoken of in Joel 2:31. Subtract 7 years of the Tribulation period and you get 2008 on the Feast of Trumpets for the Rapture. That is September 29-30( remember its the day no one knows, or the Jews call it the Long Day.)

Course, if your one of those mid-tribbers, or post tribbers, I can't help you. I just hope I'm outta here before I have to watch Obama take the oath of office. I'm afraid I'll have a bunch of repenting to do if that happens.

This guy on the DVD also made another claim I had never heard before. We all worry about the fate of the Jews salvation, but he says the Jews will have to repent for Jesus to come back. Can you imagine Israel saying Jesus is Messiah any time soon? I guess the Tribulation will be bad enough for them to realize the New Testament is also God's Word. One more thing about it, I've been in several churches that looked forward to the 3rd Temple being built. The Temple that man builds will be for the Anti-Christ. I didn't make note of the verse yet, but it says that Jesus Himself will build His Temple AFTER Judgment Day. I know people that have sent money to Israel for the building of the new Temple and the Red Heifer is already bred. Bad move!

Another topic that is often discussed is the Gospel must be given to everyone in the world BEFORE Jesus comes back. TV preachers go on and on about how we need more satellite channels and TV's and radio towers to get the Word out so Jesus can come. Well Rev. 14:6 says Jesus has that handled already. The angels will do it. Isn't it like man to believe we can hurry Jesus up or have anything to do with His schedule? Sorta like Sara giving Abraham her servant to get the promised child. That worked out well, didn't it?

His purpose in making the prediction is to talk of the "foolish virgins and the unwise servants. These people aren't "lost" people but lukewarm pew warmers. You could be left behind and have to endure the Anti-Christ and the Tribulation. After the Church is Raptured, the only way to Christ is martyrdom for the ones left behind. Can you imagine knowing what the Scripture says and knowing the Bride is gone to the Bridegroom, and you are still here?

Pray that you have the heart soul strength and mind with God's grace through his Holy Spirit to endure whatever we may have to endure until we depart this earth. To think that we may be taken out before any problems and persecution come to America could be the down fall of many Christian Americans. Persecution is occurring in many places of the world and yet the American Christians remain silent for the most part. Ms. Casey's Daughter

Here's how I imagine the relationship between God and Earth.

"Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good... (Genesis 1:1--2:2)"

And along comes sin.

At that very instance his Creation began to die slowly and gradually. Now imagine God's holding in the palm of his hand Earth. Similarly to how you would hold a round glass object in yours. Now imagine that object (Earth) slowly and gradually over time got hotter (more sinful) and hotter (more sinful) until you had to start shuffling it back and forth between hands so not to burn your hands and avoid the pain. If you were to drop that object it would be destroyed. Eventually the objects (Earths) temperature (sin) will rise to a point were you will no longer be able to hold it at all. Making it certain that destruction will eventually come. That's how I analogize Earth and the infectious nature of sin.

There will come a time when sin, as the heat in the glass object, gets so high that to even approach it, as with the object, it will become too painful and eventually melt. As sin permeated God Creation just as the heat would slowly rise in said object, God's grasp is becoming more difficult. In order for him to get a handle on things once again, there must be a purging of the sin (cooling of the objects temperature). Much like dunking that glass object in cool water cooling it off so you can handle it safely. And therein lies one reason that God saw fit to flood the earth. But since he promised he would never do it again he will have to take another tact. And since his Creation is slowly rejecting any part of him. There will come a time when he gives it over totally to the King of earth, Satan. But because God loves, and wants every person to turn to him and because if left to Satan, nothing would be left if he doesn't intervene.

That's my mental picture of what's going on.

Yet he did preserve a remnant, didn't He? Not only of man, but of every other kind aboard the ark... So His intention was clear- He intended to preserve it, yet he still nuked the joint anyway. What gives?

I think we have to consider that Noah and his Family were the ones selected because of Noah's righteousness [Genesis 6:9] These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. KJV

This is not to say that Noah was racially superior....but he was righteous...and found God's grace. A different translation of [Genesis 6:9] These are births of Noah: Noah is a righteous man; perfect he hath been among his generations; with God hath Noah walked habitually. "Young's Literal Translation"

Sometimes "Young's" is hard to read because it translates everything.....literally.

Bottom line.....God felt no need to "Nuke" (your words) Noah.

Perhaps a better explanation: [2 Peter 2:5] And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.

You mentioned the Nephilim. I'm not sure all the Nephilim were destroyed in the flood. A hard to understand verse for me has always been this: [Genesis 6:19] And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

The Nephilim may have been only half flesh.....but they were still flesh! I cannot figure this out.

As Christians I was surprised to find almost no teachers teaching Jewish Feasts and culture and customs. Some churches were even hostile to Jews and their traditions.

This has been the problem for 1700 years. The mainstream church in it's "anti-anything Jewish mode" has done more to destroy the true "EKKLESIA" than anything else.

If He timed His first coming with Passover, Unleavened Bread and First Fruits, It makes sense that the fall Festivals would also be kept on the same schedule. We just never know the year it might happen, but we should be looking each year on those dates.

The New Testament Church continued celebrating God's Festivals and Sabbaths well into the third century until finally forced underground by the might of Imperial Rome and it's official theology.

You mentioned the Nephilim. I'm not sure all the Nephilim were destroyed in the flood. [...] The Nephilim may have been only half flesh.....but they were still flesh! I cannot figure this out.

I would be of the opinion that they did perish, as it was written that all which drew breath did die. My position comes from the length of time thereafter before they are encountered again.

What is a more fitting question is this: When were the fallen ones imprisoned? It is said they are locked away beneath the ocean, which would imply that the flood was the point of their imprisonment, but Nephilim were present many years after the flood- They were encountered when the Hebrews were conquering Canaan. Either these were of a race which survived the flood, or the fallen ones were necessarily around to make more...

But that is for another thread, perhaps...

What is a more fitting question is this: When were the fallen ones imprisoned? It is said they are locked away beneath the ocean, which would imply that the flood was the point of their imprisonment.

[Jude 6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Sounds like these beings have been there (in chains) since the fall of Satan. Question is.....when did Satan fall?

[Isaiah 14:12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! verses 16-17 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

When did this ever happen? Sounds pre-Adamic....if you ask me. [Ezekiel 28:14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. The previous verse: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Satan was in Eden prior to Adam and Eve.....and at that time was considered an anointed Cherub....before sin entered into him and caused an Angelic rebellion.

[2 Peter 3:5-7] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

I think Peter clarifies it here as the Heavens and the Earth he says are now.....would be the same Heavens and the Earth during the time of Noah. Peter is speaking of a pre-Adamic time.....a prior flood (prior to Noah) which was caused by Satan and his angels.

[Jude 6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Here is the time in which these angels left their first estate:

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
(e-Sword: KJV)

Please note that it says (w/ markup, mine):

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days [antediluvian]; and also after that [postdiluvian], when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. [pantheonic gods=fallen ones, heroes=Nephilim]
(e-Sword: KJV)

Sounds like these beings have been there (in chains) since the fall of Satan. Question is.....when did Satan fall?

That is the question- My interpretation above suggests that time to be some time after the flood, and presmably after the Hebrews fought the Nephilim in Canaan. I believe the pantheon of gods to represent the fallen ones, real and physically present for some period between Babylon and Rome. Up until the fall of Satan, these beings were not bound, and were responsible for leading man astray. Perhaps it was at the point of Christ's resurrection, as He has 'bound the strong man' in order to plunder his estate.

[Isaiah 14:12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! verses 16-17 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

When did this ever happen? Sounds pre-Adamic....if you ask me.

I believe you are taking the verse out of it's context. It has not yet happened, as it describes the time after Satan is loosed from the pit.

I must disagree. My take on this verse:

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished. [antediluvian]
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now [postdiluvian], by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
(e-Sword: KJV)

I don't see a necessity for two floods.

I don't see a necessity for two floods.

Then you do not see the possibility that there was a significant time elapse between [Genesis 1 and 2]?

The reason I do.....is because Satan was already a fallen creature when Adam and Eve appear in Eden. As pointed out in [Ezekiel 28:13-14] he was considered an anointed Cherub....an inhabitant of the garden....evidently sometime in the distant past....certainly before Adam and Eve. Thou hast been (past tense) in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. This sure sounds pre-Adamic to me.

And, of course we know that when he rebelled he took a bunch with him. [Jude 6]

You cannot see that Peter is discussing a world that was .....and a world that is [2 Peter 3:5-7]? We have essentially the same world that Noah had.... at this point.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Well.....we know that giants did exist during the return to the promised land as Israel contended with them. This would qualify as an "also after that". And since Moses tells us they were evident prior to Noah I'm sure that was the case too. That's why I said earlier that I wasn't positive that they had all been destroyed during the flood.

I believe you are taking the verse out of it's context. It has not yet happened, as it describes the time after Satan is loosed from the pit. [Isaiah 14:12]

Most prophecy has a dual nature....so yes, this could be construed....either way.

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