WHICH, being translated from the latin
means
it's impossible to find "impossible" in that post of mine.
Slick dodge. Impressive.
Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
I don't know. What's "RC understanding?"
WHICH, being translated from the latin
means
it's impossible to find "impossible" in that post of mine.
Slick dodge. Impressive.
A LOT of us Prottys have been asking that question a LONG time.
“Sola scriptura is not Biblical”
I’ve seen this many times on this thread. But saying it is not “Biblical” is a form of “sola scriptura” isn’t it? Aren’t you using scripture to determine what is or is not authentic? What is the authority for any other “rule” for faith and practice?
I attended a healing service at the Lasallette Shrine (now defunct) in Ipswitch, Mass. some 20 some odd years ago. I had a partial paralysis in one leg which medical professionials said could not be corrected. Unfortunately it was not healed but I was, and still am, greatly impressed with the participating Nuns and Priests, their evident holiness and sincerity is still with me.
I have seen miracles. They do not pass protestant muster because the Protestant canon for determining miracles is, "If it's reported by a Catholic it didn't happen."
I am pleased that I am not listed among those nasty "Protestants". On the other hand I have never seen no longer needed artificial limbs hanging among the no longer needed crutches.
Now that would be a miracle which could not be denied as a possible "spontaneous remission" wouldn't it?
Okay. We are getting a new fix on Protestant exegesis. If a Catholic makes a generic statement it is directed at a particular Protestant personally and the Protestant is allowed, if not required, to take it personally and to make a show of injured innocence or of brushing it off.
If, on the other hand, a Protestant makes a generic statement it is to be understood literally as being only generic and having nothing whatsoever to do with any individual. Further any individual who takes any remark made by a Protestant personally is mentally ill.
Gah! No wonder they can't read Scripture!
***I wish you could identify a post or two which justify your claim.***
On the Evangelicals returning to Rome thread;
To: MarkBsnr
You don’t believe in the Gospel.
1,374 posted on Monday, June 02, 2008 3:34:41 AM by fortheDeclaration (”Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people”.-John Adams)
To: MarkBsnr
....
Another person can judge another persons soul by their words and actions.
‘By their fruits ye shall know them’.
You have rejected the grace of God and you will burn.
My advice to you is to enjoy the taste of water while you can now, since when you enter into eternity, you will never taste it again (Luke 16).
1,368 posted on Monday, June 02, 2008 2:37:27 AM by fortheDeclaration (”Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people”.-John Adams)
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Well, you won’t see it because we are going to two different judgments.
I am going to the Judgment seat of Christ for believers and you are going to the Great White Throne Judgment for unbelievers
1,342 posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 2:49:49 AM by fortheDeclaration (”Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people”.-John Adams)
and a few others in more or less the same tone.
***Sorry their mirth doesn’t show up publically very often.***
That’s because a lot of the humour is unintentional.
Sometimes, when one is desperately seeking the Peace of God and it doesn’t seem apparent, envy can take over and make them hate those in whom it shines like a beacon.
I feel sorry for those poor souls because they are searching for the peace of mind that only fullness of belief can bring and since they can’t find it they put their own projections on others.
If one is truly ensconced in Bosom of Christ they will pray that those souls find their peace with God. Paul found it profoundly after persecuting Christians. Jesus asked him: “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
If Jesus knows every hair on our head and loves us eternally, infinitely and profoundly, what does He think of anyone who would make fun of anyone who profoundly loves His mother.
I think there are those on these boards who have never loved and been truly loved and can’t even pretend to understand the healthy love and pride that one gets when someone they truly loves receives an honor. Their hearts are lacking charity. They can’t imagine that the honor that the loved one receives can actually show love and respect for Jesus, that any love for another can only take away from God.
And yet, God, himself, created us to love-God most of all- but our families and our friends. God is love and love is never wasted; be it for a wife, a husband, a child, a friend, a stranger. God wants us to love and be loved in a real human way because that is the only way we can even come close to apprehending the love of Christ.
When people insult other people under the guise of religion, especially using a caricature of what that person believes, they are persecuting Jesus.
When people crave attention so much that they laugh at God’s children who, whether their Christian faith is through the Catholic Church or the Church of the Nazerene, one is wounding Jesus.
“why do you persecute me?”
Jesus could be saying that to you this very day...but will you hear?
***I have lots to say about the RC “priesthood”***
If you stick to the truth of the Gospels, we’ll get along famously.
Are you giving thanks and adulation to one other than God?
***Oh, dear . . . heathen competition. Who’d a thunk!***
***Doesn’t take living in China long to get used to being called a barbarian.
I now consider it quite a complement.***
You say that you are educated and you mix up ‘complement’ and ‘competition’? The American public school system must be very proud of you.
I have felt you have an "overactive imagination" since I first became introduced to your posting style. If you think that is saying "something bad" about you so be it.
Continue to throw out your charges without any proof whatsoever and I will keep on discounting them.
***Pillar and Foundation of Truth
What? The RC magicsterical???? ***
The Catholic Church, not the individual made up churches.
I know there are spirit-filled Catholics who believe in the gifts of the Spirit and the laying on of hands. I had it happen in our local Catholic church when they had a healing priest there. This was back in the days when the HS was pouring Himself out on the Church during the first charismatic movement. I haven’t seen much of it lately though. How about the other gifts? Do any of the RC’s here speak in tongues, have words of knowledge, prophecy, etc. I am truly interested in knowing that.
***What’s “RC understanding?”***
Don’t know. I’ve heard of RC Cola.
LOL, I called it psuedo-evangelism the other day thinking I was quoting you and by the time I realized my mistake it was already posted.
Sometimes my blondness really shows. Or maybe it is the ADHD. Whatever, I do have a pocket full of excuses.
There is even a book called, “In Imitation of Mary,” to go along with the old classic, “In Imitation of Christ.”
But that's not what I said. I said "What's 'RC Understanding'" Is English your second language?
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