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The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007

Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.

There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.

Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).

Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.

Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.

I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.

But do I WORSHIP them?

No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.

I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.

There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?

I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.

Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.

In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.

At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; mary; rcc; romancatholic
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To: MarkBsnr

I simply post the NGR apology and move on. It seems some of the faucets around here do not run hot and cold, but Gibberish and Hate.


6,101 posted on 06/16/2008 11:16:11 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: MarkBsnr
Do not let the heretic, the apostate and the heathen

So, it seems inescapable that in the view of the poster I'm responding to, I personally am

an apostate, heretic and heathen.

Thankfully, God has a very different perspective on my person and my soul.

However, it was a fascinating personal assault. A little late--here it is already after noon. I was beginning to miss my morning personal assault. I was beginning to feel unloved by my dear RC bretheren and sistern.

6,102 posted on 06/16/2008 11:17:14 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
After 2 cups of coffee while looking thru the latest posts on this thread, I see a lot of name-calling by one side who also appears to be crying persecution and hitting the abuse button at the same time. What a bizarro world, and no senses of humor either.
6,103 posted on 06/16/2008 11:18:32 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: Petronski

Tsk Tsk . . .

putting words in my fingers again that I didn’t write.

I thought RC’s were the experts on bearing false witness.

Oh, right, some ARE . . . in a manner of speaking.


6,104 posted on 06/16/2008 11:18:34 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: MarkBsnr; fortheDeclaration
Sure. It was fortheDeclaration.

If fortheDeclaration made an absolute unqualified, statement that you were going to hell I will join you in condemming the hubris involved. Not one of us can claim to know the "future" of another.

I wish you could identify a post or two which justify your claim. I don't doubt your honesty but I sometimes doubt your ability to objectively interpret what was actually said.

6,105 posted on 06/16/2008 11:19:03 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know no thing.)
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To: Quix

Gibberish alert.

I don’t need to call my support staff every time I have to wipe my nose.


6,106 posted on 06/16/2008 11:19:14 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Quix

I thought I was the heathen?


6,107 posted on 06/16/2008 11:19:22 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: papertyger

When a Christian departs from grace, there is either repentence, or a retreat into legalism.

= =

Yeah, Prottys observe a LOT of that within the RC edifice.


6,108 posted on 06/16/2008 11:19:25 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: MarkBsnr

I bow to greater expertise in the RC edifice in that regard.


6,109 posted on 06/16/2008 11:20:31 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

***Doesn’t take living in China long to get used to being called a barbarian.

I now consider it quite a complement.***

Complement to what? Heresies?


6,110 posted on 06/16/2008 11:20:31 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Petronski

About time for the RC mind-reading/heart-reading to get back on—err off track.


6,111 posted on 06/16/2008 11:21:48 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
Scripture exhorts us to use Godly judgment in a number of respects and contexts.

Though I note you decline to be more specific as to what those circumstances are....

6,112 posted on 06/16/2008 11:23:11 AM PDT by papertyger (What Would Jesus Do? ... Remember "freak out and turn over tables," is a valid option ;o)
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To: Quix
TO ME the words/phrases themselves IN SUCH A CONTEXT are inherently blasphemous.

But when I ask to be shown how they are inherently blasphemous, I get no answer.

It is so because you perceive it to be so? And you say WE are haughty?

I make an analogy to show how praising Mary with over-the-top titles is glorifying God for his work, and how begrudging such praise is like someone enviously condemning a person who sees and praises the beauty of the moon for forgetting the sun.

Do I get an argument? No. I get that somewhere in a galaxy far, far away there are examples of idolatry and a repetition that the words are per se idolatrous.

The questions are dodged, reason is despised, and the charge is repeated.

This Cor ad cor loquitur stuff is all very well as far as it goes. But when it comes to saying, "You're guilty because .. because, well because I just KNOW you are," well, it doesn't move the ball.

(Excuse me, I'm going for the prize for most mixed metaphors in one day.)

6,113 posted on 06/16/2008 11:23:25 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; alpha-8-25-02; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; ears_to_hear; ...

Ahhhh welllll . . . it’s

SOP

for the RC edifice as we’ve seen for many years.

I think we have to be compassionate and keep in mind the clay whereof we were all dug.

It is sad that Mary couldn’t find at least a few grams of humor in all her white hankys somewhere to toss down to the bereft RC’s hereon.


6,114 posted on 06/16/2008 11:24:08 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: OLD REGGIE

***When you submit your will and intellect to the Magisterium you become a happy robot.***

I have the Pillar and Foundation of Truth that instructs me as to what the Faith is. I do not reserve the right to make it all us as I go along.


6,115 posted on 06/16/2008 11:24:47 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; Alex Murphy; alpha-8-25-02; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; ears_to_hear; Forest Keeper; ...

Support staff???

I think I’m missing something here.

Except for The Truth of The Scriptures and The Lord God Almighty, I don’t see any support staff here???

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, the buddies I often share the jokes with! Those characters! LOL.

Sorry their mirth doesn’t show up publically very often.


6,116 posted on 06/16/2008 11:26:20 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: MarkBsnr

I have lots to say about the RC “priesthood” but I’ll stay focused on Marianism here. There is more to be said and the error is more obvious.


6,117 posted on 06/16/2008 11:27:21 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Obamafeld, "A CAMPAIGN ABOUT NOTHING".)
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To: Quix
putting words in my fingers again that I didn’t write.

I did no such thing.

6,118 posted on 06/16/2008 11:27:35 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: 1000 silverlings

Really?

Oh, dear . . . heathen competition. Who’d a thunk!

LOL.

Thankfully, Their clumsiness in pinning the tail on the Cassocks leaves them little skill in pinning the tail on the heathen!


6,119 posted on 06/16/2008 11:27:51 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: MarkBsnr

To my list of accolades from the Chinese! LOL.


6,120 posted on 06/16/2008 11:29:13 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.


6,121 posted on 06/16/2008 11:29:17 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: OLD REGGIE

It was some time ago. I wish that FR had an in-post search function.

I’ll see what Google can come up with.


6,122 posted on 06/16/2008 11:29:49 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: 1000 silverlings; Quix; wmfights; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; OLD REGGIE; roamer_1; xzins; P-Marlowe; ...
so all those that aren't called by the Father, and are not in Christ, what is their lot? What scripture do you have supporting another view? What anything do you have? If they aren't called by the Father, are they "called by the mother?" lol

LOL is right.

Apparently that's exactly what Rome teaches -- some men are called by the Mother. It's truly amazing to surf the net and read some of these Catholic sites...

LIVING CATHOLICISM

"So too, Mary calls to us down through the ages to imitate her, not with words so much, but with the example of her life..."

Where does the Scripture say we are to imitate Mary???

Christians are called by God to imitate Christ.

Or from this site...

LITURGICAL YEAR - AUGUST (MARY)

Reparation to the Immaculate Heart

Our very consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary calls upon us to make reparation for the offenses that we and others have committed against her. The Church, in inviting us to consecrate ourselves to her Immaculate Heart, implicitly calls upon us for this reparation. But more explicitly, and even before Fatima, Saint Pius X offered a plenary indulgence to all who on the first Saturday of the month would observe special devotions in honor of the Immaculate Virgin in a spirit of reparation for the blasphemies uttered against her.

???

We are "consecrated to Mary?!?"

We "make reparations to HER?!?"

For "offenses against HER?!?"

From the next paragraph...

"There is, however, an even more basic reason why each one of us owes reparation to the Immaculate Heart of Mary: every sin of ours caused grief and suffering to her in union with her divine Son. For sin was the cause of that terrible day on Calvary when she, as the New Eve, shared in the torment of the great sacrifice, and, amidst indescribable pain, brought forth spiritually all the members of the Mystical Body of her divine Son. God willed that Mary should be intimately associated with His Son in bearing the burden of all sin; surely then, her Immaculate Heart, in union with His divine Heart, should receive reparation from us who have caused them such pain. If anyone causes hurt to even a very ordinary human being, he does not overlook the need to make amends. How much more do we owe to the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!

There it is. Mary "bears the burden of all sin."

Blasphemy and lies.

First "another Christ." And now, "another Savior."

6,123 posted on 06/16/2008 11:29:49 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Mad Dawg

I’ll try to get back to that this evening.

I’ve been having so much fun, I’m quite late getting around to my watering and off to pottery.


6,124 posted on 06/16/2008 11:30:27 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

Anyone

Purporting to

mind-read
heart-read

idolatry” into a single word, phrase, sentence, paragraph of any of my prayers, or those of my brethren

strikes me as bearing false witness.

Thankfully, My Lord Jesus The Christ knows the score in our heart and our mind.

There. Fixed it.

6,125 posted on 06/16/2008 11:30:49 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Where does the Scripture say we are to imitate Mary???

Catholics are not burdened by the false teaching known as sola scriptura.

6,126 posted on 06/16/2008 11:32:19 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Quix

Nothing surprises me anymore. by the way, quix is the barbarian, I am the heathen, you can be either the apostate or the heretic.


6,127 posted on 06/16/2008 11:32:39 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: MarkBsnr
Pillar and Foundation of Truth

What? The RC magicsterical????


6,128 posted on 06/16/2008 11:33:00 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

***So, it seems inescapable that in the view of the poster I’m responding to, I personally am

an apostate, heretic and heathen. ***

Are you taking names on yourself? Are you reading minds?

***I was beginning to feel unloved by my dear RC bretheren and sistern. ***

Ah, the hidden secret of this thread. Unlike it’s title, this thread is not about Mary; it’s about Quix’s feelings.


6,129 posted on 06/16/2008 11:33:15 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
There it is. Mary "bears the burden of all sin." Blasphemy and lies.

What? Your post?

It simply does not say what you claim it says. It's amazing that one can cut and paste it without taking the time to understand it.

6,130 posted on 06/16/2008 11:33:51 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Petronski
"Bearing false witness" is inadvisable.

Show me where I wrote the word "impossible" in that post.

6,131 posted on 06/16/2008 11:34:44 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
We are "consecrated to Mary?!?"

Nope. Doesn't say that.

6,132 posted on 06/16/2008 11:35:06 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
"There is, however, an even more basic reason why each one of us owes reparation to the Immaculate Heart of Mary: every sin of ours caused grief and suffering to her in union with her divine Son. For sin was the cause of that terrible day on Calvary when she, as the New Eve, shared in the torment of the great sacrifice, and, amidst indescribable pain, brought forth spiritually all the members of the Mystical Body of her divine Son. God willed that Mary should be intimately associated with His Son in bearing the burden of all sin; surely then, her Immaculate Heart, in union with His divine Heart, should receive reparation from us who have caused them such pain. If anyone causes hurt to even a very ordinary human being, he does not overlook the need to make amends. How much more do we owe to the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!

What an excellent find in the search for evidence that Mary is the object of idolatrous worship! This makes DeMontfort look like a NOOB!

6,133 posted on 06/16/2008 11:35:24 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Obamafeld, "A CAMPAIGN ABOUT NOTHING".)
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To: Quix

Why would I do that? I never claimed YOU used the word impossible in that post.


6,134 posted on 06/16/2008 11:36:03 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Petronski; Alex Murphy; alpha-8-25-02; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; ears_to_hear; Forest Keeper; ...
Did I sign a contract somewhere

to be responsible for RC understanding and comprehension hereon?


6,135 posted on 06/16/2008 11:37:19 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
The RC magicsterical????

Is English your second language?

6,136 posted on 06/16/2008 11:37:24 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Petronski; Dr. Eckleburg; newgeezer
Catholics are not burdened by the false teaching known as sola scriptura.
6,137 posted on 06/16/2008 11:37:37 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Obamafeld, "A CAMPAIGN ABOUT NOTHING".)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

LOL.

Sooooooooooo, is it that the

white hanky’s deliver messages through the

White Hanky Time Travel Sevice

or how, exactly, is that managed?


6,138 posted on 06/16/2008 11:38:54 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: DungeonMaster
Sola scriptura is not Biblical.
6,139 posted on 06/16/2008 11:40:51 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: 1000 silverlings
Nothing surprises me anymore. by the way, quix is the barbarian, I am the heathen, you can be either the apostate or the heretic.


6,140 posted on 06/16/2008 11:42:02 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
Did I sign a contract somewhere to be responsible for RC understanding and comprehension hereon?

I don't know. What's "RC understanding?"

6,141 posted on 06/16/2008 11:43:25 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Petronski; Alex Murphy; alpha-8-25-02; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; ears_to_hear; Forest Keeper; ...
Is English your second language?

WHICH, being translated from the latin

means

it's impossible to find "impossible" in that post of mine.

Slick dodge. Impressive.


6,142 posted on 06/16/2008 11:46:08 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Petronski; Alex Murphy; alpha-8-25-02; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; ears_to_hear; Forest Keeper; ...
What
"RC understanding?"

INDEED!

A LOT of us Prottys have been asking that question a LONG time.


6,143 posted on 06/16/2008 11:50:54 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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Comment #6,144 Removed by Moderator

To: Petronski; DungeonMaster

“Sola scriptura is not Biblical”

I’ve seen this many times on this thread. But saying it is not “Biblical” is a form of “sola scriptura” isn’t it? Aren’t you using scripture to determine what is or is not authentic? What is the authority for any other “rule” for faith and practice?


6,145 posted on 06/16/2008 11:54:11 AM PDT by enat
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To: Mad Dawg; Marysecretary
So yeah, as a matter of fact, not only laying on of hands but also anointing by elders is practiced in the Catholic Church.

True. Not common but it does happen, possibly as frequently as among Protestants.

I attended a healing service at the Lasallette Shrine (now defunct) in Ipswitch, Mass. some 20 some odd years ago. I had a partial paralysis in one leg which medical professionials said could not be corrected. Unfortunately it was not healed but I was, and still am, greatly impressed with the participating Nuns and Priests, their evident holiness and sincerity is still with me.

I have seen miracles. They do not pass protestant muster because the Protestant canon for determining miracles is, "If it's reported by a Catholic it didn't happen."

I am pleased that I am not listed among those nasty "Protestants". On the other hand I have never seen no longer needed artificial limbs hanging among the no longer needed crutches.

Now that would be a miracle which could not be denied as a possible "spontaneous remission" wouldn't it?

6,146 posted on 06/16/2008 11:54:54 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know no thing.)
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To: Quix; 1000 silverlings
I personally am an apostate, heretic and heathen.

Okay. We are getting a new fix on Protestant exegesis. If a Catholic makes a generic statement it is directed at a particular Protestant personally and the Protestant is allowed, if not required, to take it personally and to make a show of injured innocence or of brushing it off.

If, on the other hand, a Protestant makes a generic statement it is to be understood literally as being only generic and having nothing whatsoever to do with any individual. Further any individual who takes any remark made by a Protestant personally is mentally ill.

Gah! No wonder they can't read Scripture!

6,147 posted on 06/16/2008 11:56:10 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: OLD REGGIE

***I wish you could identify a post or two which justify your claim.***

On the Evangelicals returning to Rome thread;

To: MarkBsnr

You don’t believe in the Gospel.

1,374 posted on Monday, June 02, 2008 3:34:41 AM by fortheDeclaration (”Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people”.-John Adams)

To: MarkBsnr

....

Another person can judge another persons soul by their words and actions.

‘By their fruits ye shall know them’.

You have rejected the grace of God and you will burn.

My advice to you is to enjoy the taste of water while you can now, since when you enter into eternity, you will never taste it again (Luke 16).

1,368 posted on Monday, June 02, 2008 2:37:27 AM by fortheDeclaration (”Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people”.-John Adams)
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Well, you won’t see it because we are going to two different judgments.

I am going to the Judgment seat of Christ for believers and you are going to the Great White Throne Judgment for unbelievers

1,342 posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 2:49:49 AM by fortheDeclaration (”Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people”.-John Adams)

and a few others in more or less the same tone.


6,148 posted on 06/16/2008 11:57:35 AM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Quix

***Sorry their mirth doesn’t show up publically very often.***

That’s because a lot of the humour is unintentional.


6,149 posted on 06/16/2008 12:01:55 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Quix

Sometimes, when one is desperately seeking the Peace of God and it doesn’t seem apparent, envy can take over and make them hate those in whom it shines like a beacon.

I feel sorry for those poor souls because they are searching for the peace of mind that only fullness of belief can bring and since they can’t find it they put their own projections on others.

If one is truly ensconced in Bosom of Christ they will pray that those souls find their peace with God. Paul found it profoundly after persecuting Christians. Jesus asked him: “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

If Jesus knows every hair on our head and loves us eternally, infinitely and profoundly, what does He think of anyone who would make fun of anyone who profoundly loves His mother.

I think there are those on these boards who have never loved and been truly loved and can’t even pretend to understand the healthy love and pride that one gets when someone they truly loves receives an honor. Their hearts are lacking charity. They can’t imagine that the honor that the loved one receives can actually show love and respect for Jesus, that any love for another can only take away from God.

And yet, God, himself, created us to love-God most of all- but our families and our friends. God is love and love is never wasted; be it for a wife, a husband, a child, a friend, a stranger. God wants us to love and be loved in a real human way because that is the only way we can even come close to apprehending the love of Christ.

When people insult other people under the guise of religion, especially using a caricature of what that person believes, they are persecuting Jesus.

When people crave attention so much that they laugh at God’s children who, whether their Christian faith is through the Catholic Church or the Church of the Nazerene, one is wounding Jesus.

“why do you persecute me?”
Jesus could be saying that to you this very day...but will you hear?


6,150 posted on 06/16/2008 12:02:43 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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