Posted on 07/29/2008 4:39:52 PM PDT by annalex
Evangelicals have been going through a major change of heart in their view of Catholicism over the past 15 years or so. In the 80’s when I was in college I lived in the Biblebelt and had plenty of experience with Evangelicals–much of it bad experience. The 80’s was the height of the “Are you saved?” question. In Virginia, the question often popped up in the first 10 minutes of getting to know someone. As I look back, Isurmise that this was coached from the pulpit or Sunday school as it was so well coordinated and almost universally applied. It was a good tactic for putting Catholics on the defensive even before it was known that they were Catholic—”ummmm, uhhh, well no, I’m not sure, I’m Catholic.” Then a conversation about works righteousness or saint statues would ensue. Yeah, nice to meet you, too.
Thankfully, those days are pretty much over. We now have formerly rabid anti-Catholics apologizing and even praising the pope. Catholics and Evangelicals have both learned that we have much in common and need each other to face the secular culture with a solid front. But, where did this detente come from? I think there is a real history to be told here and a book should be written. Let me give my perceptions of 7 major developments since 1993, which I regard as the the watershed year for the renewal of the Catholic Church in the United States.
1. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1993. When this document came out, it was uncertain that even Catholics would read it. We should have known that something was up when the French version hit the top of the bestsellers charts in France and stayed there for months. The English version did the same in the US. Catholics were reading the Catechism, forming study groups and challenging errant professors in the classroom.
2. World Youth Day, Denver 1993. Catholic youth and youth ministers woke up. Suddenly, Catholic youth ministers realized that the youth loved the pope. And they loved him all the more because he did not talk down to them or water down the faith. He challenged them. Gone now were the pizza and a video parish youth nights. Furthermore, youth and young adults took up the challenge to evangelize. One of those youth heard the message and started a website, New Advent. Catholic youth were now becoming zealous for the Catholic faith in its fullness and were not going to be swayed by an awkward conversation that began with “Are you saved?”
3. Scott Hahn. While the Catechism is great for expounding the Catholic faith, it is not a work of apologetics itself. It is not written to expose the flaws of Evangelical theology. It is not written to defend the Church against the attacks of Evangelicals per se. It just would not let them get away with misrepresenting the Catholic faith. But Scott Hahn hit the scene at about the same time with Rome Sweet Home: Our Journey to Catholicism (Ignatius Press: San Francisco, 1993). I first heard his testimony on cassette tape in 1996. It blew my mind. Suddenly, Catholic apologetics, which is as old as the Catholic Church itself, got a leg up and there was an explosion of books, magazines and websites that effectively undercut the arguments of the 5 Solas. For the first time, there was a cadre of Catholics well enough informed to defend their faith.
4. The Internet. The Net started exploding from 1993 to 1996. I had my first account in ‘94. Compuserve was horribly basic, but by ‘96 I had AOL and the religion debates raged instantly. Catholics who had just been given the most powerful weapon in the arsenal in the war against misinterpretation of their teaching were learning to type on a forum while balancing their catechisms on their laps. Of course, online versions came out, as well. But, no Evangelical bent on getting Catholics out of the arms of the Whore of Babylon could expect to do so without himself have a copy of the Catechism, knowing it inside out and pouring over it for the errors and horrors he would surely find. Evangelical apologists were confronted with a coherent and beautiful presentation of the Catholic faith that they were ill equipped to argue against. They learned that Catholics, too, loved Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The Catechism had arrived providentially just before the internet and had turned the tables in just a few short years. With the apologetic movement hitting at the same time, Evangelicals were also confronted with Catholics who could argue from the Bible defending their faith and demonstrating the weaknesses of Evangelical interpretations of scripture.
5. Early Church Fathers. One fruit of the Apologetics movement has been a flowering anew of Catholic interest in Patristics. This is happening at every level from armchair apologists to doctoral studies. It is suddenly all about Patristics, whereas in the 70’s-90’s the academic focus had been on Karl Rahner and Liberation Theology.
6. Evangelical Third World Experience. Evangelicals have had a field day in Latin America among the poor who are not part of the internet conversation and are distant from the study of apologetics. But, Evangelicals have learned from their experiences abroad an essential aspect of the Gospel they were missing: the Works of Mercy. Once haughty with their criticism of “works righteousness,” they have learned one cannot attend to the spiritual needs of the poor without attending to their bodily needs. Catholic have always understood this. Now, the Evangelicals are coming around. I haven’t heard an Evangelical Televangelist speak on works righteousness in many years.
7. Secularism. With the collapse of the Mainline churches as the backbone of American religion over the past thirty years (since about 1975), Catholics and Evangelicals are the only ones left standing in this country to present the Gospel. Secularism is on the rise and is ruthless. Evangelicals are now learning that only Catholicism has the intellectual resources to combat the present secular age. And, with the pope, we have a pretty effective means for communicating the faith and representing it to the world. There is nothing an Evangelical can do that will match the power of one World Youth Day.
With such an array of Providential developments, Evangelicals as well as Catholics have come to appreciate the depth and the breadth of the Catholic faith. It is far more difficult for them to honestly dismiss Catholicism as the work of Satan as once they did without qualm. There have been apologies and there have been calls for a new partnership. Let us hope these developments will bring about a new moment of understanding for the Glory of the Lord.
lol, I see the anti catholic Harpie crowd is here.
The other main source was attempts to merge Christianity with Greek philosophy. This is where the Gnostics come in, and some of the other more odd heresies.
But for the later Medieval heresies, these can't be the source.
Which, I guess, on second thought, is what it is....
I know that Pelagian was the source of a heresy, but could you give details of the Pelagian view of justification?
Before responsing, it would be helpful to know your understanding of that period in history. Please post references and links. Thank you.
Why am I not surprised.
ITTM
INDEED TO THE MAX.
I see Judith Anne has called the mod in because what I said was antagonistic. I can’t see it but... That’s what they do.
Hell would be more likely to hold an Olympic snowball fight, first.
THEY CANNOT--EVEN TO THEMSELVES--EVEN TO THE PERSON IN THEIR MIRRORS--DARE TO RISK EVEN THE KERNAL of such an honest, true-to-history-and-reality logical answer to that question.
If they do, the house of cards is in shambles.
Have you ever seen one of those string and stick sculptures--all tensioned just right etc? Their house of cards is like that only chaotic vs orderly.
The rubber stretches from point A to point W. And from point C to point X. And from point K to point YY. and from point G to point QQ . . . a Gordian Knot would be a slipknot by comparison.
The mutually exclusive terminal level deal breaker BRAZEN CONTRADICTIONS within the edifice and it's endless reams of dogma and fantasized doctrines & !!!!TRADITIONS!!!! of men and worse . . . are as obvious as warts on a toad . . . unless one is addicted there-to; obsessed there-with and worshiping there-at.
Some folks with sufficient fair-mindedness and openness to Holy Spirit to learn and see truth, yet . . . may well profit eternally from your great efforts. It increasingly looks like a number of rabid folks hereon may well not be included in that cluster.
Being born again means you can’t get away with the stuff you used to. The Holy Spirit is at work in your life to rid you of the garbage you bring into your Christian walk. When you begin to change, then people KNOW the Holy Spirit is in you. When you begin to love people without reservation, then people know the HS is within you. You cannot live the Christian life without Him working in and through the believer. All this takes time, to be sure, but there should be evidence of the HS in your life when you are born again.
All with the most polished expression of incredulity that anyone would consider such rubber logic to be the least bit amiss . . . along with terminal Olympic Class haughty indignation that there could possibly be the least micro-gram of a flaw in such assertions.
Maybe some need an ice dunking to be awakened and brought back to this reality.
NO.
But a cluster of Believers who are against
—rubber histories
—rubber Bibles
—rubber logic
—rubber dictionaries
—fantasized dogma
—fantasized unrelatives of Jesus
—fantasized purities
. . . heresies . . . doctrines and traditions of man and worse . . .
THE TRUTH
is certainly against the corrupt elements, lying elements,
rubber history elements
rubber Bible elements
rubber logic elements
rubber dictionary elements
political power-mongering bureaucracy elements
etc. of the RC edifice.
Of course . . . without all that . . . it wouldn’t be anything resembling the RC edifice we are all familiar with . . .
which must be where the terror comes from . . .
to imagine that with all the sacred cows gored . . . what would be left . . .
That would be frightful for those addicted to worshiping the sacred cows.
Doesn’t really matter—parsing words and historical facts is back to the rubber edifice.
The summary in that paragraph is sufficient for the point.
The BRAZENLY OBVIOUS CONTRADICTIONS are inescapable.
Y’all simply refuse to deal with them.
I believe that I have previously addressed your claim that every violent death in Europe from the fall of Rome through the 18th Century is somehow attributable to the papacy:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2023605/posts?page=11638#11638
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2023605/posts?page=11102#11102
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2023605/posts?page=10782#10782
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2023605/posts?page=10195#10195
“Evangelicals: Change of Heart toward Catholics”
You can’t expect everybody to want to unite against secularism and anti Christian sentiment for Christ. But most of those are not evangelicals. They think evangelicals are wrong as well. Everybody is wrong but them.
“You shall know them by thier fruits”
The Christians had been reading Romans 7 for 15 centuries prior to Luther without the need to invent self-serving doctrines that directly contradict it. Some gift.
It is true that every time anyone says anything about any evengelical position, an evangelical will be found who would say it is a misrepresentation. You just followed up with two posts to me that apply the same error of fundamentalist literalism to monasticism and celibacy (combined with apparent ignorance of the scripture passages concerning John the Baptist). Well, whatever the evangelical manner of scriptural interpretation is, your posts illustrate why it is inadequate and un-Catholic.
Masybe I was unclear in my 82 when I said "these are the things that are together uniquely Catholic, that are each a bastion against the forces of secularism". I did not say that each of these things alone is uniquely Catholic, but rather that they together, as a list, only apply to the Roman Catholic Church.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.