Nails In The Preterist-Replacementarian's Perspective's Coffin

That puzzling space between Quix's ears. | 6 MAR 2009 | Quix

[Quix]

NAILS IN THE PRETERIST--REPLACEMENTARIAN COFFIN

SCRIPTURES AND QUIX COMMENTARY
ISAIAH:

1.	2:1-5: The Mountain of the Lord 1 This is what Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:	This was not some fantasy. This was some future reality that the God-beyond-time SHOWED Isaiah.
2.	2 In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it.	1) "IN the LAST DAYS." I realize that Preterist—REPLACEMENTARIANS do not believe in the Bible verses about the LAST DAYS—however, they are GOD’S WORD. And, given Blood Israel’s being regathered [far from complete] again to the Holy Land, we are certainly in that era regardless of the blindness of some perspectives. 2) “The mountain of the Lord’s Temple…” CLEARLY God WILL HAVE ANOTHER TEMPLE built on HIS HOLY MOUNTAIN—regardless of REPLACEMENTARIAN OR PALISTINIAN PROTESTS to the contrary. 3) “will be established as chief amongst the mountains.” Scripture is quite clear that GOD’S HOLY MOUNTAIN WILL BE THE HIGHEST. I personally believe—higher than any other in the whole world. Even if it’s only within that geographic region—it will certainly be highest of any for many miles around—any within sight. Nothing else would make consistent sense with the text. 4) “all nations will stream into it.” CLEARLY THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. It certainly did not happen in 70A.D.! It will not happen until after Armageddon. AS we see the oligarchy setting the stage for Armageddon . . . and delusionally believing they can defeat Almighty God at Armageddon . . . we can realize that we haven’t long to wait for this ancient prophecy to be literally fulfilled. PRAISE GOD! BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD!

ISAIAH 2:3

3.	3 Many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.		1) “Many peoples will come” Again, this clearly has not happened yet. Nevertheless, GOD IS DECLARING, ALMIGHTY GOD! … IS DECLARING THAT IT WILL HAPPEN—THAT MANY PEOPLE WILL STREAM FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD TO GOD’S HOLY MOUNTAIN AND THE JEWISH TEMPLE BUILT THEREON. Another Scripture indicates, that IF THEY DO NOT—that nation that does not send such delegations will not get any rain. 2) and say, COME LET US GO UP! The picture I’ve persistently had when reading such verses is that of a JOYOUS—LET US GO UP UNTO THE LORD AND HIS VERY JEWISH TEMPLE ON HIS MOUNTAIN IN HIS HOLY LAND! It is a grand and joyous calling to one’s friends and loved ones to join in the pilgrimage. 3) to the mountain of The Lord. Again—this is no average mountain. This is a mountain without peer. This is THE MOUNTAIN OF THE LORD GOD ALM IGHTY OF THE ANGEL ARMIES—as a number of passages call Him. And it has not yet been raised up as it will be. 4) TO the house of THE GOD of JACOB! Note—the verse does not say: TO THE CONGREGATION OF THE MESSIAH—though logically, Christians will certainly have residence and identity there. NO! THE EMPHASIS IS—the God of JACOB—the third Patriarch of the tribes of . . . NOT Methodists, NOT Presbyterians, NOT Episcopalians, NOT Assemblies of God, NOT Vineyards, NOT Calvary Chapels—NO—THE EMPHASIS IS—THE GOD OF JACOB! I realize that REPLACEMENTARIANS will think God goofed when HE wrote that emphasis in. Or else they will deny it’s any kind of emphasis. Or maybe they will just ignore the facts altogether—a common rationalization on the part of their camp, it seems. 5) HE will teach us HIS WAYS! So, Dear Replacementarians, tell us—when, exactly in 70 AD did this happen where Nations from all over the earth streamed into the highest mountain in the Holy Land with a hastily rebuilt THIRD Jewish Temple to sit at the feet of God and learn HIS WAYS there in that unusual mountain and that THIRD Jewish Temple? Was it in the first month? Maybe the 6th month? The 8th? Oh, right, it didn’t happen at all. It hasn’t happened yet. But the puzzle pieces are sure moving into place for it to happen! PRAISE GOD. BLESSED BE HIS NAME! 6) SO that we may walk in HIS PATHS! Ahhhhhhhhh . . . sooooo where are all these Nations in the world so eager to walk in JACOB’S GOD’S PATHS? OH, RIGHT, they are lining up to destroy Jacob’s descendants. Pesky fact, that. It Hasn’t happened yet that they have learned their lesson and are eager then to learn THE GOD OF JACOB’S WAYS. However it IS STILL VERY MUCH ON THE GOD OF JACOB’S SCHEDULE! 7) The LAW [of the God of Jacob] WILL go out from ZION! NOT from Pike’s Peak! NOT from Salt Lake! NOT from Milwaukee! NOT from Springfield! NOT from Coasta Mesa! NOT from Cantebury! NOT from Rome! FROM ZION! UNIQUE IN ALL THE WORLD TO JACOB AND JACOB’S GOD. 8) The WORD OF THE LORD [of Jacob] FROM JERUSALEM! THE HOLY CITY! THE GOD OF JACOB’SJEWISH HOLY CITY first and foremost. Thankfully Christians have been grafted in as citizens, as well! PRAISE GOD FOR HIS FAITHFULNESS TO ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB. That demonstrates to me that He WILL BE FAITHFUL TO ME, his Blood Bought adopted son.

[Blogger]

A statement in the post you quoted spoke of ‘prophecies that failed to materialize’. That was a scoff according to the dictionary definition of the word.

Dispensationalists (and others) believe in a literal future for future Israel and believe there are certain Old Testament passages all the way back to the very beginning of the Bible that have yet to be fulfilled. Whole chunks of Scripture are yet future. Preterists do not believe this. I agree with any arguments against date setters; however, when one characterizes something as

“the fertile mind of futurist who see their grip on the Church slowly slipping away and more and more of their “prophecies” about the end times fail to materialize”

They are not only scoffing at the dispensationlist or other believer, but at the Word of God itself.

[raynearhood]

I agree with any arguments against date setters; however, when one characterizes something as

“the fertile mind of futurist who see their grip on the Church slowly slipping away and more and more of their “prophecies” about the end times fail to materialize”

They are not only scoffing at the dispensationlist or other believer, but at the Word of God itself.

But, you misquote, or at the very least take topcat's quote out of context.

The entire quote: (emphasis is mine)

It’s pretty clear that so-called “replacement theology” is a boogeyman created in the fertile mind of futurist who see their grip on the Church slowly slipping away and more and more of their “prophecies” about the end times fail to materialize. And so they invented “replacement theology” as a whipping boy to divert attention away from the own exegetical and theological failures.

And this as a reply to this and this.

First off, no-one was taking a hit at Scripture, or "scoffing" at Scripture. Instead, the "scoffing" was at the "exegetical and theological failures" of dispensational theology.

Second, that wasn't the point. I linked to topcat's reply for the link on his reply. Here it is to explain why "replacement theology" is a "boogeyman".

[raynearhood]

Whole chunks of Scripture are yet future.

Although that is some of the argument, that is mot the core of the argument. This is:

The bottom line of biblical eschatology can be summed up in a few verses, e.g.,

21 Then Martha said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You." 23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." 24 Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." 25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11)

When Israel or antichrist rather than Jesus Christ becomes the focus of all the eschatology talk, you know you have a problem.

and:

Anytime that an eschatology focuses on CNN, Fox News, the AP, etc... to try squeezing out fulfillment of Scripture - whenever an eschatology looks to the Jerusalem Post to learn about the endtimes - that eschatology develops a new theology that attempts to extend God's grace to those not in Christ. According to this twisted theology Jesus, our Redeemer, our Savior, the Messiah is not needed universally. That is the core problem with dispensation theology. All other perversions of the Scripture are logical fallicies resulting from that perversion of God's Grace and application of justice.

Preterists do not believe this.

That's a misrepresentation of preterists. I'll leave it to them to explain.

[raynearhood]

Whoops! Made a one time only tagline into a two-fer. Changing back.

[Cvengr]

After God the Holy Spirit is removed from indwelling believers, what would you then call the subsequent believers?

[Cvengr]

According to this twisted theology Jesus, our Redeemer, our Savior, the Messiah is not needed universally. That is the core problem with dispensation theology.

The above is a false statement, advocated by those who proclaim preterism.

Dispensationalism insists to the contrary that all history flows through the control of Christ and as good stewards, all our living moments are to be guided through faith in Him. For example consider the definition given by the founder of Dallas Theological Seminary, LS Chafer in his Systematic Theology, to wit:

DISPENSATION. Translated from the word o)ikonomia, meaning primarily stewardship, a dispensation is a specific, divine economy, a commitment from God to man of a responsibility to discharge that which God has appointed him.

The Apostle declares of himself: “For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, if ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward” (Eph. 3:1-2).

A stewardship was committed to the Apostle for him to receive, formulate, and proclaim the sacred secret respecting the hitherto unrevealed fact and provisions of saving grace as they are demonstrated in the Church. In uncounted instances Covenant Theology is disturbed by the recognition of dispensational distinctions; even the new manifestation of divine grace becomes one of those disturbing features of truth.

If there be, as Covenant theologians contend, but one covenant of grace and that covenant operating uniformly in every age, to what, indeed, must the Apostle be referring when he asserts that a dispensation respecting a hitherto unrevealed economy of divine grace is committed unto him?

Regardless of an unproved and unscriptural notion which may be embraced by a great number of men who have done no more than to receive without investigation what is taught in their schools, in the present age God is making a distinct and peculiar demonstration of His grace through the Church, which is Christ’s Body.

“Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; and to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God” (Eph. 3:8-10).

Thus it comes about by means of this company of redeemed Jews and Gentiles (Eph. 3:6), which company has not existed as such in any other age, that the mystery or sacred secret, hidden from past ages, is made known and that revelation reaches to angelic hosts. Because past, present, and future ages (cf. Eph. 1: 10; 3:1-6) are so clearly defined in the Scriptures, Covenant theologians acknowledge different ages or time-periods, but then they treat them as merely different ways of administering one and the same divine purpose.

Regardless of every feature known to earlier ages, it will be seen that the Word of God builds all its doctrinal structure on an age past, a present age, and a future age. To deny these varied divisions, however, gathered as they are about the different revealed purposes of God, is to cease to be influenced duly by the precise Scripture which God has spoken.

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[Quix]

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

[Quix]

INDEED!

WELL PUT!

THX.

[Quix]

THX THX

[Lee N. Field]

2 you who hate the good and love the evil, who tear the skin from off my people and their flesh from off their bones,
3 who eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them, and break their bones in pieces and chop them up like meat in a pot, like flesh in a cauldron.
--Micah 3

Your interpretative method would find the pre-exilic Israelites to be cannibals.

The Mountain of God

The mountain of God is a theme that is ubiquitous in scripture, from Genesis to the Apocalypse. Yes, our people have done work on the subject.

For all the good it will do to point it out.

< obfuscate>"Certain parties"< /obfuscate> will simply mock, loudly and at length, what they give no evidence of understanding.

[Lee N. Field]

Y’all have insisted that Israel is REPLACED by Christians wholesale. Totally. Fini.

Umm. Excuse me. Dude, we've gone to great length, often, to point out that that flat out is not so.

[Lee N. Field]

Preterists do not believe that key promises, such as those concerning the actual land of Israel, are in effect today.

Go read this post and if you're up to it, the linked documents. Then comment.

The land promise can not have the kind of fulfillment dispensationalists envision.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

They say..
Thanx for 2/3rds of the Bible. Now take a hike. lol.

[Uri’el-2012]

And Hal Lindsey is a serial polygamist goof.

And you are sinless ?

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[Quix]

It really does boil down to

DISBELIEVING GOD AND HIS WORD.

Shocking.

[Quix]

Sigh.

[Quix]

Actually,

wouldn’t it be all the Scriptures except for Luke?

[Quix]

And, IIRC,

every one of your efforts to do that has

ended up even more emphatically demonstrating how true it is that the preterist-replacementarian perspective

DOES

negate, flush, dismiss, ignore, disbelieve . . .

that the blood descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob have any further prophetic fulfillment as a distinct identity, people, group before God Almighty, in the eyes of God Almighty, in the plans of God Almighty.

Umpteen dozen/hundred lines are then expounded about how Christians have totally REPLACED blood Israel in terms of 100% of God’s focus and plans and prophecies yet to be fulfilled.

I’d love for it to be otherwise.

Just the facts as I’ve experienced them with y’all.

[Uri’el-2012]

wouldn’t it be all the Scriptures except for Luke?

Many believe that Luke was a Jew.

ignore II as he is alway snarky.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai