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The Rapture [RAPTURE CAUCUS]
Lamb & Lion Ministries ^ | Dr. David Reagan

Posted on 03/18/2009 10:27:27 PM PDT by Star Traveler

The Rapture [RAPTURE CAUCUS]

What is it? Who will it affect? When is it most likely to take place?
by Dr. David R. Reagan
http://www.lamblion.com/about_staff_reagan.php

The Rapture is a glorious event which God has promised to the Church.

The promise is that someday very soon, at the blowing of a trumpet and the shout of an archangel, Jesus will appear in the sky and take up His Church, living and dead, to Heaven.

The Term

The term "Rapture" comes from a Latin word, "rapio," that means "to catch up, to snatch away, or to take out." It is, in turn, a translation of the Greek word, "harpazo."

So, "Rapture" is a Biblical word that comes right out of the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible. The word is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. In the New American Standard Version, the English phrase, "caught up," is used. The same phrase is used in the King James and New International Versions.

A Promise to the Church

The concept of the Rapture was not revealed to the Old Testament prophets because it is a promise to the New Testament Church and not to the saints of God who lived before the establishment of the Church. Jesus will return as a bridegroom for His bride, and that bride consists only of Church Age saints.

The saints of Old Testament times will be resurrected at the end of the Tribulation and not at the time of the Rapture of the Church. Daniel reveals this fact in Daniel 12:1-2 where he says that the saints of that age will be resurrected at the end of the "time of distress."

Biblical References

The first clear mention of the Rapture in Scripture is found in the words of Jesus recorded in John 14:1-4. Jesus said, "I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."

The most detailed revelation of the actual events related to the Rapture is given by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. He says that when Jesus appears, the dead in Christ (Church Age saints) will be resurrected and caught up first. Then, those of us who are alive in Christ will be translated "to meet the Lord in the air."

Paul mentions the Rapture again in 1 Corinthians 15 — his famous chapter on the resurrection of the dead: "Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet" (verses 51-52).

Paul's reference here to being changed is an allusion to the fact that the saints will receive glorified bodies that will be imperishable, immortal, and perfected (1 Corinthians 15:42-44, 50-55 and Isaiah 35:5-6).

A Summary

To summarize, these passages teach that the shout of an archangel and the blowing of a trumpet will herald the sudden appearance of Jesus in the heavens (1 Thessalonians 4:16). The dead in Christ will be resurrected and rise up to meet the Lord in the sky. Then, those saints who are alive will be "caught up" to the Lord. Paul concludes his description in 1 Thessalonians 4 by encouraging his readers to "comfort one another with these words."

And truly the Rapture is a comforting thought! Consider the promises contained in the concept of the Rapture. Jesus will bring with Him the spirits of those who have died in Him (1 Thessalonians 4:14). He will resurrect their bodies in a great miracle of re-creation; He will reunite their bodies with their spirits; and He will then glorify their bodies, making them immortal. And those believers who are living will not even taste death. Rather, they will be caught up to the Lord, and in transit, they will be translated from mortal to immortal.

All my life I have heard that there are two things no one can avoid: taxes and death. Well, that is not true. According to 1 Thessalonians 4, a whole generation of believers will escape death. Taxes appear to be the only inevitability!

The Timing

The most controversial aspect of the Rapture is its timing. Some place it at the end of the Tribulation, making it one and the same event as the Second Coming. Others place it in the middle of the Tribulation. Still others believe that it will occur at the beginning of the Tribulation.

The reason for these differing viewpoints is that the exact time of the Rapture is not precisely revealed in scripture. It is only inferred. There is, therefore, room for honest differences of opinion, and lines of fellowship should certainly not be drawn over differences regarding this point, even though it is an important point.

Post-Tribulation Rapture

Those who place the timing at the end of the Tribulation usually base their argument on two parables in Matthew 13 and on the Lord's Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24.

In Matthew 24 the Lord portrays His gathering of the saints as an event that will take place "immediately after the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29). This certainly sounds like a post-Tribulation Rapture. But it must be kept in mind that the book of Matthew was written to the Jews, and therefore the recording of Jesus' speech by Matthew has a distinctively Jewish flavor to it as compared to Luke's record of the same speech.

Note, for example, Matthew's references to Judea and to Jewish law regarding travel on the Sabbath (Matthew 24:15-20). These are omitted in Luke's account. Instead, Luke speaks of the saints looking up for deliverance "to escape all these things" when the end time signs "begin to take place" (Luke 21:28, 36). The saints in Matthew are instructed to flee from Judea and hide. The saints in Luke are told to look up for deliverance.

It appears, therefore, that Matthew and Luke are speaking of two different sets of saints. The saints in Matthew's account are most likely Jews who receive Jesus as their Messiah during the Tribulation. The saints in Luke are those who receive Christ before the Tribulation begins. Most of those who accept the Lord during the Tribulation will be martyred (Revelation 7:9-14). Those who live to the end will be gathered by the angels of the Lord (Matthew 24:31).

The parable of the wheat and tares (Matthew 13:24-30) and the parable of the dragnet (Matthew 13:47-50) can be explained in the same way. They refer to a separation of saints and sinners that will take place at the end of the Tribulation. The saints are those who receive Jesus as their Savior during the Tribulation (Gentile and Jew) and who live to the end of that awful period.

The Bible clearly teaches that the Rapture is an event that is separate and apart from the Second Coming. The two simply cannot be combined into one event.

Mid-Tribulation Rapture

There are variations of the mid-Tribulation Rapture concept. The most common is that the Church will be taken out in the exact middle of the Tribulation, at the point in time when the Antichrist is revealed.

This concept is based upon a statement in 1 Corinthians 15:52 which says that the Rapture will occur at the blowing of "the last trumpet." This trumpet is then identified with the seventh trumpet of the trumpet judgments in the book of Revelation. Since the blowing of the seventh trumpet is recorded in Revelation 11, the mid-point of the Tribulation, the conclusion is that the Rapture must occur in the middle of the Tribulation.

But there are two problems with this interpretation. The first is that the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15 is blown for believers whereas the seven trumpets of Revelation 8, 9 and 11 are sounded for unbelievers. The Revelation trumpets have no relevance for the Church. The last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15 is a trumpet for the righteous. The last trumpet for the unrighteous is the one described in Revelation 11.

Another problem with this interpretation is that the passage in Revelation 11 that portrays the sounding of the seventh trumpet is a "flash forward" to the end of the Tribulation. Flash forwards are very common in the book of Revelation. They occur after something terrible is described in order to assure the reader that everything is going to turn out all right when Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation.

Thus, the eighth and ninth chapters of Revelation, which describe the horrors of the trumpet judgments, are followed immediately by a flash forward in chapter 10 that pictures the return of Jesus in victory at the end of the Tribulation. The mid-Tribulation action resumes in chapter 11 with a description of the killing of the two great prophets of God by the Antichrist. Then, to offset that terrible event, we are presented with another flash forward, beginning with verse 15. The seventh trumpet is sounded and we find ourselves propelled forward to the end of the Tribulation when "the kingdom of the world becomes the kingdom of our Lord."

The point is that the seventh trumpet of Revelation relates to the end of the Tribulation and not the middle. It is the same trumpet that is referred to in Matthew 24:31, the trumpet that will be blown to announce the Second Coming of Jesus. It is therefore no basis for an argument in behalf of a mid-Tribulation Rapture.

Pre-Wrath Rapture

A variation of the mid-Tribulation Rapture is the pre-wrath Rapture concept that places the Rapture at the beginning of the last quarter of the Tribulation, about five and a half years into the Tribulation.

The argument for this view is that the Church is promised protection only from the wrath of God and not the wrath of Man or of Satan. It is then argued that only the bowl judgments in the last quarter of the Tribulation (Revelation 16) represent the wrath of God.

But the argument for this view disintegrates when you consider two facts. First, it is Jesus Himself who breaks the seals that launch each of the seal judgments recorded in Revelation 6. These judgments occur at the beginning of the Tribulation. Second, the seven angels who blow the trumpets that initiate each of the trumpet judgments are given their trumpets at the throne of God (Revelation 8:2).

All the judgments of Revelation are clearly superintended by God. That is the reason we are told in Revelation 15:1 that the bowl judgments at the end of the Tribulation will finish the wrath of God, not begin His wrath.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture

I believe the best inference of Scripture is that the Rapture will occur at the beginning of the Tribulation. The most important reason I believe this has to do with the issue of imminence.

Over and over in Scripture we are told to watch for the appearing of the Lord. We are told "to be ready" (Matthew 24:44), "to be on the alert" (Matthew 24:42), "to be dressed in readiness" (Luke 12:35), and to "keep your lamps alight" (Luke 12:35). The clear force of these persistent warnings is that Jesus can appear at any moment.

Only the pre-Tribulation concept of the Rapture allows for the imminence of the Lord's appearing for His Church. When the Rapture is placed at any other point in time, the imminence of the Lord's appearing is destroyed because other prophetic events must happen first.

For example, if the Rapture is going to occur in mid-Tribulation, then why should I live looking for the Lord's appearing at any moment? I would be looking instead for an Israeli peace treaty, the rebuilding of the Temple, and the revelation of the Antichrist. Then and only then could the Lord appear.

Focus

This raises the issue of what we are to be looking for. Nowhere are believers told to watch for the appearance of the Antichrist. On the contrary, we are told to watch for Jesus Christ. In Titus 2:13 Paul says we are to live "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus." Likewise, Peter urges us to "fix our hope completely on the grace to be brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:13). John completes the apostolic chorus by similarly urging us to "fix our hope on Him" at His appearing (1 John 3:2-3).

Only Matthew speaks of watching for the Antichrist (Matthew 24:15), but he is speaking to the Jews living in Israel in the middle of the Tribulation when the Antichrist desecrates the rebuilt Temple.

Wrath

Another argument in behalf of a pre-Tribulation Rapture has to do with the promises of God to protect the Church from His wrath. As has already been demonstrated, the book of Revelation shows that the wrath of God will be poured out during the entire period of the Tribulation.

The Word promises over and over that the Church will be delivered from God's wrath. Romans 5:9 says that "we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him [Jesus]." 1 Thessalonians 1:10 states that we are waiting "for His Son from heaven... who will deliver us from the wrath to come." The promise is repeated in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 — "God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Deliverance

Some argue that God could supernaturally protect the Church during the Tribulation. Yes, He could. In fact, He promises to do just that for the 144,000 Jews who will be sealed as bond-servants at the beginning of the Tribulation (Revelation 7:1-8).

But God's promise to the Church during the Tribulation is not one of protection but one of deliverance. Jesus said we would "escape" the horrors of the Tribulation (Luke 21:3-6). Paul says Jesus is coming to "deliver" us from God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:10).

Symbolism

There are several prophetic types that seem to affirm the concept of deliverance from Tribulation.

Take Enoch for example. He was a prophet to the Gentiles who was raptured out of the world before God poured out His wrath in the great flood of Noah's time. Enoch appears to be a type of the Gentile Church that will be taken out of the world before God pours out His wrath again. If so, then Noah and his family are a type of the Jewish remnant that will be protected through the Tribulation.

Another Old Testament symbolic type which points toward a pre-Tribulation Rapture is the experience of Lot and his family. They were delivered out of Sodom and Gomorrah before those cities were destroyed.

The Apostle Peter alludes to both of these examples in his second epistle. He states that if God spared Noah and Lot, then He surely "knows how to rescue the godly from trial and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment" (2 Peter 2:4-9).

Another beautiful prophetic type is to be found in the Jewish wedding traditions of Jesus' time. After the betrothal, the groom would return to his father's house to prepare a wedding chamber for his bride. He would return for his bride at an unexpected moment, so the bride had to be ready constantly. When he returned, he would take his bride back to his father's house to the chamber he had prepared. He and his bride would then be sealed in the chamber for seven days. When they emerged, a great wedding feast would be celebrated.

Likewise, Jesus has returned to Heaven to prepare a place for His bride, the Church. When He returns for His bride, He will take her to His Father's heavenly home. There He will remain with His bride for seven years (the duration of the Tribulation). The period will end with "the marriage supper of the Lamb" described in Revelation 19. Thus the seven days in the wedding chamber point prophetically to the seven years that Jesus and His bride will remain in Heaven during the Tribulation.

Revelation

Speaking of Revelation, the structure of that book also implies a pre-Tribulation Rapture in a symbolic sense.

The first three chapters focus on the Church. Chapter 4 begins with the door of Heaven opening and John being raptured from the Isle of Patmos to the throne of God in Heaven. The Church is not mentioned thereafter until Revelation 19:7-9 when it is portrayed as the "bride of Christ" in Heaven with Jesus celebrating the "marriage supper of the Lamb." At Revelation 19:11 the door of Heaven opens again, and Jesus emerges riding a white horse on His way to earth, followed by His Church (Revelation 19:14).

The rapture of the Apostle John in Revelation 4 appears to be a symbolic type of the Rapture of the Church. Note that it is initiated by the cry of a voice that sounds like the blowing of a trumpet (Revelation 4:1). Since the Tribulation does not begin until Revelation 6, the rapture of John in Revelation 4 appears to be a symbolic type that points to a pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church.

Some counter this argument by pointing out that although the Church is not mentioned in Revelation during that book's description of the Tribulation, there is constant mention of "saints" (for example, Revelation 13:7). But that term is not used in the Bible exclusively to refer to members of the Church. Daniel uses it to refer to Old Testament believers who lived long before the Church was established (Daniel 7:18). The saints referred to in the book of Revelation are most likely those people who will be saved during the Tribulation, after the Church has been taken out of the world.

Paul's Assurance

An interesting argument in behalf of the pre-Tribulation timing of the Rapture can be found in 2 Thessalonians. The church at Thessalonica was in a turmoil because someone had written them a letter under Paul's name stating that they had missed the "gathering to the Lord" and were, in fact, living in "the day of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2).

Paul attempted to calm them down by reminding them of his teaching that the day of the Lord would not come until after the Antichrist is revealed. He then stated that the Antichrist would not be revealed until a restraining force "is taken out of the way" (2 Thessalonians 2:3-7).

There has been much speculation as to the identity of this restraining force that Paul refers to. Some have identified it as the Holy Spirit. But it cannot be the Holy Spirit because there will be people saved during the Tribulation, and no one can be saved apart from the testimony of the Spirit (John 16:8-11 & 1 John 5:7).

Others have identified the restrainer as human government. It is true that government was ordained by God to restrain evil (Romans 13:1-4). But the governments of the world are in rebellion against God and His Son (Psalm 2), and they are therefore a contributor to the evil that characterizes the world. Furthermore, the Tribulation will not be characterized by a lack of government. Rather, it will feature the first true worldwide government (Revelation 13:7).

In my opinion that leaves only one other candidate for Paul's restrainer — and that is the Church. It is the Church that serves as the primary restrainer of evil in the world today as it proclaims the Gospel and stands for righteousness. When the Church fails in this mission, evil multiplies, as Paul graphically points out in 2 Timothy 3:1-5. Paul says that society in the end times will be characterized by chaos and despair because "men will hold to a form of religion but will deny its power." When the Church is removed from the world, all hell will literally break loose.

Escapism?

The pre-Tribulation concept of the Rapture has often been condemned as "escapism." I think this criticism is unjustified. The Bible itself says that Christians are to "comfort one another" with the thought of the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:18). Is it a comfort to think of the Rapture occurring at the end of the world's worst period of war instead of at the beginning?

Regardless of when the Rapture actually occurs, we need to keep in mind that the Bible teaches that societal conditions are going to grow increasingly worse the closer we get to the Lord's return. That means Christians will suffer tribulation whether or not they go into the Great Tribulation. And that means all of us had better be preparing ourselves for unprecedented suffering and spiritual warfare.

If you are a Christian, you can do that on a daily basis by putting on "the full armor of God" (Ephesians 6:13), praying at all times in the Spirit that you will be able to stand firm against the attacks of Satan (Ephesians 6:14-18).

If you are not a Christian, your only hope is to reach out in faith and receive the free gift of God's salvation which He has provided through His Son, Jesus (John 3:16).


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: christians; davidreagan; endtimes; prophecy; rapture; rapturecaucus
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To: Star Traveler
Thanks for the input.
441 posted on 02/28/2010 4:32:54 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: Star Traveler

Thanks ST!

We see prophecy every day coming closer that results to the finish line!


442 posted on 02/28/2010 5:09:46 PM PST by TaraP (*GOD* made love so strong, so it would carry you all the way home.....)
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To: Star Traveler
Also note in Revelation that not all the normal Temple area is measured. There is part that is “left out” because it's under control of the Gentiles, and I believe that's a reference to the Temple Mount area, being split between the Muslims and the Jews and each one occupying a portion of it.

****************
I remember reading an article from a physicist about this... let me see if I can find it.

443 posted on 02/28/2010 5:18:13 PM PST by pinkpanther111 (Know before whom you stand)
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To: John Leland 1789

FAIT’S ZONG HOW! [MY PIN YIN is only slightly better than my nonexistent characters]

Wo HUN AI NIMEN!

JESUS AI NIMEN!

Wo hun xi hwan gao xin jian dow ni na bien.

[And I have no idea about those tones! LOL]


444 posted on 02/28/2010 5:33:00 PM PST by Quix ( POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: pinkpanther111; Star Traveler

HA! I just realized I was remembering a different part of the same document you referenced in your post!

I haven’t read it in a few years, thanks for posting it and reminding me!


445 posted on 02/28/2010 5:40:36 PM PST by pinkpanther111 (Know before whom you stand)
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To: VRWCTexan

MUCH AGREE. THX.


446 posted on 02/28/2010 5:44:20 PM PST by Quix ( POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

INTERESTING. THX.


447 posted on 02/28/2010 5:45:47 PM PST by Quix ( POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Star Traveler

VERY INTERESTING. THX.


448 posted on 02/28/2010 5:51:10 PM PST by Quix ( POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: VRWCTexan

ok


449 posted on 02/28/2010 6:40:14 PM PST by caww
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To: pinkpanther111
You were talking about Lambert Dolphin then... that physicist? :-)

He's got a good website. He's got a list of links on one section of his website, and then a bunch of articles on the other half of his website.

LAMBERT DOLPHIN'S Library

When one goes there, they'll find a link for (1) Articles and then for (2) Links. There's a ton of good Christian information there.

Lambert Dolphin is a retired physicist and here's what he has to say about himself.


Brief History of this Web Site
by Lambert Dolphin

I was on the staff of SRI International back in the olden days of the ARPA Net. Office work, such as text editing and running programs, was done by our staff from primitive terminals connected at first to a very friendly, beloved, but antiquated DEC KL-10 mainframe. Logging onto the ARPA Net was a bit of trouble back then, and unless we knew where to go and what to request it was no-man's land for most of us. The Net was a novelty, but the potential caused us to discuss setting up a Satellite-based (Library) Bank of Information with the government of Egypt in 1976. It proved to be an idea 20 years ahead of its time.

In 1983 outside gifts from personal friends made it possible for me to get my first Macintosh 128k. (I had met Steve Jobs and become friends some years earlier and was sold from the start on Macintosh). That old Mac 128 eventually became a 512 and then a MacPlus. In 1987 I graduated to a Mac II (running at a speedy 15 MHz) and an expensive Laserwriter Plus weighing a ton. For a long time I thought the state-of-the art could hardly get much better.

An email account at Stanford University and a guest account on a local corporate computer served my modest email needs for a time until I graduated to CompuServe along about 1992.

In April 1995 Carl Gallivan, a close friend for 30 years, suggested I should get an Internet account and put up a web page. He suggested connecting by means of an account with Best Communications, Inc., in nearby Mountain View (only $30 a month with unlimited connect time). Modems were zipping along at 14.4kbps by then!

All this was (for me) far-out leading-edge stuff, but I was eager to try it out. I started from scratch and soon found that writing html files was not difficult -- just tedious. My first modest home page went on line around Easter in April 1995. Soon I discovered that if I put files and essays which had been scattered in heaps around my office on my web pages I could find them more easily. A handy filing system whether anyone else read them or not!

The following month Carl Gallivan and Mark Verber then of Xerox PARC organized a small group of volunteers to put the 800+ sermons of our late pastor and dear friend, Ray C. Stedman, online. I set out to do the HTML file conversions, by hand, during the next few months. Using hot keys on my Mac I found that html tags could be inserted relatively easily. (I tried several early html editors, but found them all deficient and cumbersome).

Fortunately the sermons at PBC, Peninsula Bible Church, (where Ray Stedman was pastor for 40 years), existed in electronic form or could be scanned in from printed versions. After so much practice writing simply html files I was writing 3 or 4 an hour!

February 1996 found me invited to put another 300+ sermons on the PBC on the church's home pages. Out of the blue my friend of many years, Erik Lammerding then called my attention to new Mac software products Adobe Pagemill and Sitemill. Little did I realize the power and usefulness of this new software! Converting library text files to html now was made more efficient for me by a factor of 4! I heartily recommend these packages, though it may mean some of you PC users who are still tied to DOS, the Devil's Operating System, will have to recant and come into the wonderful world of Apple. By the way Pagemill is WYSIWYG and has links, anchors and graphics features that are really dazzling and easy to use. (This was obviously the time good HTML text editors began to become available).

As a matter of web-page philosophy, Mark Verber has provided many helpful comments and tips to this novice. I agree with Mark that library resources such as my home page or the Ray Stedman Library should have minimal graphics and be neat and simple. Many Internet users connect by impossibly slow modems or through antiquated servers. Many web browsers in use are primitive. If the purpose of a web site is to make information available, then what is the need for flashing neon signs, slow-loading gussied-up graphics? Note: The Ray Stedman Library became an independent stand-alone web site in 2005, and all of Ray's books were added online at that time. Everything has remained free of charge since.

My web pages are sort of my working library. My style of writing is to put an idea or Bible class notes into a draft form and revise and update them subsequently. Seldom do I have the time to finish an essay all in one sitting. I hope the unfinished state of many of my online papers won't be too disconcerting. Whenever I find a willing friend who is willing to edit files, I am eager to recruit editorial and writing skills to improve my web page materials. (Guest articles are also welcome, as you have probably noticed already).

As a place for Christian ministry I am enthused about the Internet. I am delighted at the email I receive daily from all over the world. I respond by email to everyone who writes, often with the help of special friends in the Paraclete Forum. In the past few years I have made dozens of great new friendships on Internet. I like working in a medium where there are no denominational walls and boundaries. And, it's as easy to talk to Hungary or Finland or Singapore as it is to talk to a friend down the block here in Silicon Valley. It is easy to enter into deep conversations with a new friend and to drop the discussions when the main points have been covered. Yes, I try to answer my email as promptly as I can.

450 posted on 02/28/2010 6:45:54 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: pinkpanther111
In Post #432... take a look at the website link right under the picture. That's something put up by Lambert Dolphin.
451 posted on 02/28/2010 6:59:14 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

Thanks for the ping!


452 posted on 02/28/2010 7:47:52 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Star Traveler

Yes that was who I was speaking of! I spent hours at a time there. Haven’t been there in quite awhile! LOTS AND LOTS OF GOOD STUFF!

I specifically remember the temple mount articles. He had indepth information that no one else had.


453 posted on 02/28/2010 7:49:38 PM PST by pinkpanther111 (Know before whom you stand)
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To: Star Traveler

Yes I figured that out. I am reading through it now.

thanks


454 posted on 02/28/2010 7:50:49 PM PST by pinkpanther111 (Know before whom you stand)
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To: Star Traveler

Thanks, I saw the article earlier and was looking for where he came up with his stats.

Hard to find it at USGS.

It really depends upon the definitions being used in their numbers. For example, does one include aftershocks?

Would a 0.5 qualify in an area which daily has several 1.1 to 2.5 quakes, if a remote area never experiencing any seismic activity has a 1.0 and is counted?

If only major quakes are recorded, where is the threshold? 5? 6? 7?; If 5.0, then are the 6.0 and 7.0 aftershocks ongoing yesterday in Chile considered separate events from the 8.8?

Lastly, if all quakes are being considered, then what indicators are there of them in the past 2 millennia, especially in areas where little to no recording of such events is known today?

Even with these questions, perhaps we are going about it the wrong way. We know we should address the issue through faith in Christ, so perhaps we can ask the dual of the argument through faith in Him, are earthquakes lessening in frequency? For example, if many years ago we had an established rate of 30 per decade, did they reduce to 3 per decade the following century, then 3 per century, and now to 3 per millennia?

This we can agree is not the case.

The opposite question if they have risen from 3 per century to 30 per century over a millennia, to 30 per decade over another millennia, to now 30 per year in the last decade? This appears to be a reasonable possibility.

The article by Steve Austin, IMHO, asked and assumed some improper positions, if sincerely seeking honest answers to the above questions, using statistical analysis of the available data. I would discern it is better presented than many other articles on the topic, but IMHO has a swayed bias towards asserting no frequency change exists or if anything the frequency is lessening.

When I run the numbers, I tend to find the opposite is occurring, but its hard to tell.

Even the USGS site addressing the question, buffers the query by simply noting they have increased their information gathering network by more than a factor of 20 in the last decade, which could easily sway such calculations unstably.


455 posted on 03/01/2010 4:06:51 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Star Traveler

Thanks for the ping.

The dead in Christ rise first.

That will be a day like no other!


456 posted on 03/01/2010 7:02:26 AM PST by evets (beer)
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To: Quix; All
I have it on good authority the the newly formed Sanhedrin
are planning a Korban Pesach this coming Pesach.

The first since 70 CE

An altar made from uncut stones is being assembled near Jericho.

It was dedicated this past Tisha B'av.

Tisha B'av was auspicious as it was the destruction of the Temple in 70CE.

At some time in the near future the altar will be moved to the temple mount.

The first Korban Pesach was during the Exodus.

Yah'shua presented Himself as the Korban Pesach to cover our sins.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

457 posted on 03/01/2010 8:06:17 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

Interesting.

Would you now be willing to spell all that out in English for the special Hebrew terms?

Thx in advance.


458 posted on 03/01/2010 8:34:27 PM PST by Quix ( POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix
The Cohan(priests) are planning to sacrifice passover lambs this coming passover.

Not done since 70CE

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

459 posted on 03/01/2010 8:36:56 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

THX THX.

What will be the approximate date?


460 posted on 03/01/2010 8:39:27 PM PST by Quix ( POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 TRAITORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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