What is the definition of 'anti-Mormon'? - Anti-Mormon Caucus (Just Kidding)

Mormon Times ^ | March 5, 2010 | By McKay Coppins

[greyfoxx39]

What is the definition of 'anti-Mormon'?

 

I have often heard the criticism that Latter-day Saints classify everyone who disagrees with our beliefs as "anti-Mormon." Of course, the people who say this are usually anti-Mormons. Am I proving their point? I don't think so.

I actually agree that this is a problem in our church. After all, our belief system, if firmly embraced, demands a lot of personal sacrifice, and we often become hyper-defensive when we sense a threat to our faith.

Unfortunately, this often leads to irrational name-calling and blindly neglecting to differentiate between non-Mormons and anti-Mormons.

Of course, that's not to say anti-Mormons don't exist, or that it's unimportant to identify them. We just need to properly define the term.

First of all, we shouldn't call people who simply don't believe in Mormonism "anti-Mormons." We should call them Catholics or Baptists or Muslims or atheists. People who ascribe themselves to faiths or philosophies that contradict Mormonism should not automatically be seen as antagonists. They should be credited with having their own beliefs.

Now, what about people who try to convert Latter-day Saints to their belief systems? Are they anti-Mormons?

No.

The believing Baptist who testifies of his church's doctrine to a Latter-day Saint is trying to do something he believes is constructive. Even if he attempts to point out supposed flaws in Mormon doctrine, if his genuine intent is to save a soul and he maintains a polite, rational tone, I don't think he deserves the anti-Mormon label. After all, should Mormon missionaries be considered anti-Catholics or anti-Protestants?

The line, I believe, that separates non-Mormons from anti-Mormons is motivation. Anti-Mormons are people who put down Mormon beliefs, practices and people simply for the sake of destroying their faith. Not many anti-Mormons would admit that is their primary goal, of course, but that doesn't mean it isn't so.

For the most part, anti-Mormons should be ignored. But before that can happen, they have to be identified

[T. P. Pole]

I don’t care how long we sing. Our church has 30-40 minutes set aside for just singing. Then the sermon is another 30-40 minutes.

I love music, too, and wish we used more of it. I think we found a common ground.

Once in a while for Christmas Sunday we will have 6 or more Christmas hymns for the general congregation. But we are usually limited to 4 hymns on a Sunday. And sometimes, when the talks/sermons run long, they will skip the last hymn, or only sing the first verse of it. Like two extra minutes for all the verses is going to throw off a schedule somewhere.

[T. P. Pole]

9 out of 10 STAND??

LOL. I would guess they hold it over 10 nights. But the other way sure would leave everyone with a great impression.

The image I have in my mind is the claiming of the chairs. What a zoo that must be, with every ward trying to find their chairs, and everyone being overly possesive of theirs.

"We brought 200, but I only count 198. Where is the other two?" And then scanning through the 9802 chairs remaining, looking for them. . .

[T. P. Pole]

Nah, I think I saw it when looking at my pings the other day. At least the one I remember dealt with mormons and Moslems teaming up on Haiti earthquake relief.

[greyfoxx39]

You are right, though, about the formula nature of its use. There seems to be a few key phrases that we use without really thinking about what it sounds like. "Jesus is the Christ" or "the church is true" or "the BoM is the word of God" or whatever. Someone brought up in the culture understands what is being meant, but to an outsider it must be very strange and confusing.

It's the LACK of Christ in the worship that is the point, and I don't find it confusing....thus my original question of Easter sunrise services. What to Christians is probably the most important day of the year, is, as this year, just another business-meeting general conference. In doing a little research, I found that the general conference schedule WAS changed for the SLC Olympics though.

We find that in so many ways the actual mormon object of "worship" manifests itself as putting Joseph Smith first, the capital "C" church second and Jesus Christ running a poor third....and those of us who WERE mormon remember it in that order also. Not really anything confusing about it.

[T. P. Pole]

In doing a little research, I found that the general conference schedule WAS changed for the SLC Olympics though.

I'm going to ask for references on that claim. The dates don't line up.

[Tennessee Nana]

No the one I mean had the Moslems boasting that they were invited to sit on the front pew in the mormon temple during a service while the dues paying mormomn members had to sit towards the back...

There was some BETTERTHAN the usual culprits of BETERTHANYOUNESS going on ...

A mormon leader (Dallin H Oakes I think) said that mormons would feel comfortable and right at home in a Moslem country...

It was hugs and kisses all around...

This wasnt about Haiti where the mormons teamed up with the Moslems instead of Samaritans Purse or some other ongoing Christian charity...

[T. P. Pole]

Nope, can’t say I saw that one. Sounds like an interesting story, though. Must have been a special tour at a temple open house.

[Tennessee Nana]

No dear it was not a special tour at an open house...

It was a regular mormon service and the Moslem Imams were sitting up front on the front pew...

and both religions were glad handing each other in the article about how much they have common...

Sweet...

[Elsie]

I only know the first verse of “Christ the Lord is Risen Today” and I’m “gobsmacked” (where is that graphic?) to find out that there are 10!!!

Try being the fellow who puts the words up on the screen every Sunday for these OLD classics hymns. Their are GOBS of variations out there on the web!

[mrreaganaut]

It is regrettable that a forum like this does not allow for full communications to take place. My question was somewhat joking ... I fully recognize the difference between orthodox Christianity and mormonism in regards to faith vs works ... But in the end what differentiates us is who we say Christ is and our relationship to Him. Not the manner of our worship. While we have clear difference in both Christ and our worship methods, it is the Christ part that (accurately) makes many say we are not (orthodox) Christian.

I agree that humor often fails to come across online, and I agree that "the Christ part" is what differentiates us. However, I'm not sure that the 'Faith v. Works' part is clear. You noted, "If I was going to an Easter sunrise service or not was being presented as if I was not a Christian if I didn't. That seemed rather strange a conflict in our normal claim of differences." True, presented that way, an Easter sunrise service attendance seems like a duty or requirement.

This is a good opportunity to demonstrate what James 2:18 means when he says, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." This is often interpreted to mean that faith is required to be shown by works, or more simply, that works are required for salvation to be true. Not at all! Jesus Christ tells us in Matthew 7:16, "Ye shall know them by their fruits." The whole passage says,

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." Matthew 7:15-20

In other words, the works of James are not the works of free will, but the natural and inevitable fruit of the spirit. Galatians 5:22-23 gives a list: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Of course, works in the ordinary sense come also in the acting out of love toward the Lord and toward other people, but these are a result, not a prerequisite. As Galatians 5:18 notes, "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

This is a long answer as to why Christians who normally "deride works" should judge Mormons as lacking in faith by skimping on the Easter message at Eastertide. The LDS organization is naturally and inevitably led to be thin on Jesus and thick on General Conference. Beware of false prophets; by their fruit you shall know them.

[Grunthor]

Do you consider sending out daily more than 50,000 single missionaries and uncounted couple missionaries to convince folks that their faith is false and salvation can only be attained by joining the mormon church an attack on YOUR faith, whatever it may be....or does your personal faith get a pass?

---

I have yet to lock horns with a momon missionary that I could not handle. You?

[reaganaut]

Pulled I believe by you-know-who.

[reaganaut]

good response.

[dangus]

Too bad the Mormons don’t have any famous choirs.

(sigh, I probably have to explicitly post this for the lurkers, JIC: /sarc)

[dangus]

>> “The God of just-in-time Vs a god of just-in-case” <<

My God is the God of Justin the Martyr. Ha!

>> Church... When he said “church” I immmediately thought of the mormon chant “I love my CHURCH”... Yeppers mormons have made an IDOL of their so called “church’ <<

YOu have a lot of great stuff in your posts, but I might take issue with you on this: There’s a sense in which he’s right: people can make an idol of the social functions of their church. But the (true) Church is the body of Christ, and it *is* appropriate to love your church. Just like a bible: you can make an idol out of a book, but it’s not idolatry to love the Word. It’s best to err on the side of charity, and not presume idolatry out of statements like, “I love my church.”

All these preachers who attack “religion” are sort of a related pet peeve of mine.

[reaganaut]

That doesn’t make their theology any more palatable.

[reaganaut]

When the LDS say “I love my Church” they mean the denomination.

Loving the universal body of Christ is not idolatry, but the LDS very much focus on their adoration/worship of the LDS organization, even though they may not realize it.

[SZonian]

Well, wearing one’s heart on a sleeve is a weakness and demonstrates the fact that many are searching for ways to be offended as opposed to learning. A demonstrable liberal tactic used to squash opposing arguments and debate.

You use the word “attacking”, interesting choice of words. I don’t believe that posting actual text, quotes, doctrine, etc. from an LdS source is “attacking”. Exposing it and its meanings to the light of day is not “attacking”.

If someone is presenting factual information, instead of “feeling” like someone is “attacking you personally”, rebut the information with proof.

Emotional responses should be reserved for liberals, not conservatives who should debate with facts.

Stop the BMW’ing and “fight” back (metaphorically speaking).

[reaganaut]

But in the end what differentiates us is who we say Christ is and our relationship to Him. Not the manner of our worship. While we have clear difference in both Christ and our worship methods, it is the Christ part that (accurately) makes many say we are not (orthodox) Christian.

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Agreed. And thank you for your candor and honesty. It is very much appreciated.

[reaganaut]

In all fairness, I hate when Christians use terms by rote as well. It happens less often but it does happen.

And you are right, I think the biggest hurdle in LDS/Christian dialogue is the differences in means for the same terms.

That is also why I try to explain parenthetically what I mean in LDS terms whenever possible while conversing with someone who is LDS.

It took me over a year to ‘relearn’ my faith vocabulary after leaving the LDS, and that may be why the term thing stands out so much for me.