Skip to comments.A different take on the Carthage mob -- BYU Studies Symposium
Posted on 03/13/2010 4:21:42 PM PST by Colofornian
PROVO, Utah -- Those who were responsible for the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum on June 27, 1844, were not who might you think they were, according to one presenter at the BYU Studies 50th Anniversary Symposium.
Debra Marsh, a master's student at the University of Utah, presented evidence Friday that the members of the Illinois mob that sought to put an end to Mormonism at Carthage Jail didn't rot away because of "the Mormon curse," as N.B. Lundwall claimed in his book, "The Fate of the Persecutors of the Prophet Joseph Smith," but went on to live normal lives.
Another characterization from B.H. Roberts found in the introduction to volume 6 of the History of the Church, which called the mob a "criminal element" and "ruffians" isn't correct, either, Marsh said.
Marsh, in her paper "Respectable Assassins: A Collective Biography and Socioeconomic Study of the Carthage Mob," said that contrary to popular belief the mobsters did not suffer for their actions, and actually were respected people who went on to greater accomplishments.
"The Carthage mob members lived normal life spans, through which they prospered financially," Marsh said. "They ran for and won political office, and generally appear to be protected and honored by their fellow citizens for their participation in the murders of Joseph and Hyrum Smith. "
Marsh used a list of 89 men compiled by Sheriff Jacob Backenstos and a variety of other records to paint a picture of who these mobsters were. According to her research, while they came from the same regions of the country as others who lived in the area, mobsters were generally older than the general male population of Hancock County and were mostly learned professionals, businessmen and farmers who had their own property. The mob also had 16 men who held 24 different public offices, including state senator and U.S. senator. A large majority of the mob would have been considered in the upper class.
"This was a group of men that represented the top tier of Hancock county, in regards to power and socioeconomic status."
Marsh then showed what happened to the mob after the martyrdom of the Smith brothers.
"Most of these individuals seem to have lived normal life spans in which they prospered," Marsh said. "Obviously, living a long life doesn't necessarily translate into good fortune. But if financial well-being is an indicator of the quality of one's life, then they lived quite well."
In 1850, the average earnings of the mob were barely more than the U.S. average, with mobsters earning $1,540 compared to $1,050 for the average American. But at the end of the decade, mobsters had increased their earnings by 249 percent, or five times the national average, earning an average of $7,842 compared to $2,140. One member, Mark Aldrich, was extremely successful in the California Gold Rush and later became a merchant in Tucson, Ariz., with his personal estate valued at $50,000. Another, Jacob C. Davis, ended up being a state senator and eventually a U.S. senator for Illinois. Mob members held 24 public offices between 1844 and 1856.
Marsh also referred to various historical accounts in which men list being part of the proceedings at Carthage Jail as one of their life's greatest achievements.
Seeing the killers of Mormonism's founder doesn't take away from Marsh's testimony of the church, and she says it shouldn't bother other Mormons, either.
"Some people are uncomfortable with the idea that the mob members prospered. I know that the notion that an unseen hand dispersing justice to the wicked is very comforting," Marsh said.
"However, it quite simply isn't true. The wicked often prosper in this life. As many of us believe, though, we all will have to account for our actions, if not in this life, in the next. The most important fact remains, regardless of what happened to the Carthage mob: Joseph and Hyrum Smith were martyrs for God, and Joseph did more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world than any other man that lived in it."
........except with anything to do with that phoney fake "prophet" con man Joe Smith. No "peace" there, ever, until the entire mormon cult denounces that jackazz.
Just sayin'. :>
.except with anything to do with that phoney fake “prophet” con man Joe Smith. No “peace” there, ever, until the entire mormon cult denounces that jackazz.
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Don’t hold back NRT, c’mon tell us how you REALLY feel. ;)
Well - I haven’t gotten in my requisite digs on this thread so I’ll dive in and state my piece.
It is recorded reliably that joey-boy smith, polygamist, convicted glass-looker and liar, known paedophile (”married” to multiple underage girls), false prophet (one failed prophecy a false prophet makes - Joe failed several - see Deuteronomy 18:22), and all-around moral profligate...requested a quantity of wine to be brought in for what turned out to be his final meal on earth, in direct contravention to the principles, rules and doctrines he imposed upon others in his church (and exerted judgment and punishment upon them for violations of same).
Testimony is also recorded that he sought and accepted the offer of not only one, but two six guns to be illicitly smuggled in to him where he was jailed, intended by him to facilitate a jailbreak in order to evade the justice that the courts were sure to impose upon him.
It just conveniently so happened that he had those guns with him when the mob of men came calling at the Carthage jail late that evening after Smith and fellow detainees had enjoyed a sumptuous repast, and...
In direct contradiction of the popular brainwash myth that is propagated among the LDS faithful to this day (namely the completely baseless and delusional LIE that Smitty-boy went meekly and willingly like a lamb to the slaughter and died as a courageous martyr, of and for the faith), the lying reprobate exhibited the same irredeemably weak moral fiber and cowardice he had displayed all his sorry, misbegotten life - unwilling to go quietly and stand to account for his cheating, thieving, defrauding, and other vices, crimes and misdemeanors.
He died having committed at least one murder most foul in full view of several witnesses - shooting a man in the face at close range, and the fact that more did not provably die by his smuggled gun that night is only attributable to either the misfire of shells, or the inaccuracy of his shooting skills.
Smitty died the death of a worthless, craven coward, desperate to escape the penalty for wrongs he knew he had done.
He initially hoped that the mob was friendly, and had come to assist him in gaining his freedom, but when he realized that was not the case his act of last resort was a low effort to appeal to fellow brother masons he hoped might be in the mob, raising his arms and trying to form a square and give the distress cry ‘O Lord my G-D have pity on a poor widow’s son’, but only finished the “Oh Lord my G_d..” portion thereof.
In long and short, Joey was far from an upright man and good example of righteous behaviour - he was an unrepentant braggart, a womanizer, a drinker, vengeful towards those he considered his enemies (NOT a short list - either in his estimation or theirs) and when he was killed that night
justice was absolutely served.
The indications that several of the members of the mob that night later prospered is not a vindication or an indictment of them - it is just a rather pleasant icing on the cake.
They did the nation a service, it is just too bad joey did not meet his end much earlier, before he had caused so much damage with his lies and machinations. I suppose that was a way for the Sovereign Lord (whose name and cause were misrepresented and misappropriated by ol’ Joe) to provide adequate time for the repentance that never did come.
Bearing in mind of course that his death came about a month after Smitty’s thundering public boast that he had done more than any man - even Jesus - who was left by the disciples, but no latter day saint had ever left him yet, blah blah blah!
Smith’s demise strongly suggests a Sovereign G_d who had wearied of such empty prattle, and he got what he deserved.
Far be it from me to doubt the wisdom of such Divine Providence raising a hand to strike down a fool and a worthless braggart.
Reminiscent of Jesus himself when he took out the 5 Roman Centurions on the way to the cross...
A trial very well may have ended this Mormon mess in its infancy.
It was the "reformed" Egyptian.
Nonexistent languages are difficult to translate into English...
But it takes a long time to find it...
You don't waste time catching up. :)
You don’t waste time catching up. :)
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Especially since THIS thread was a lot more fun.
and the source of that fun is probably quivering in Canada waiting for the final solution to mormonism.
and the source of that fun is probably quivering in Canada waiting for the final solution to mormonism.
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Well, he hasn’t posted since.
And I am sure he will equate last weeks Capstone Conference with the Wannsee Conference.
Good post about the Vile Prophet.
Joseph Smith did not die for his faith, like any
1. He was in jail for destruction of private property.
2. He had an angry mob after him because of a great deal
of wrongs he had done.
3. He fired into the mob as it rushed his cell.
4. He caught return fire.
He was neither a prophet, nor a man of God, nor a martyr.
He was simply a vile man who started life deceiving
others that he could see below the earth using a
peepstone. He admitted he faked it to get money.
He pursued other mens wives to add to his harem. They
understandably did not like this.
I am not mistaken about the mans character - he
admitted this himself. Nor am I mistaken about the events.
Ive read contemporaneous accounts.
Not a martyr, but a horndog.
That is the point.
What a blight on Free Republic to have this thread recorded! Read my latest blog post at Time of Reason It appears most of you will stand shoulder to shoulder with the anti-christ when he shows up.
The Republican party did not exist at this time. It was organized ten years after Smith's death.
Yes, a reorganized Whig party, anti-slavery activists, modernizers, and ex-Free Soilers. Unfortunately today, it muddies the water to talk about the political dealings of the Smiths with the “not yet Republicans”, united in opposition to the Democrats and the Know-Nothings, but who had not yet coalesced into a national party of opposition.
Yet my point remains, the Smiths tried to form a political bloc of Mormons to get the protection of one of the major factions, but they were unable to do so, because the Mormons were not politically monolithic. And this backfired terribly because it “turned every man’s hand against them”, in a manner of speaking.
And thus it remains today, with the bulk of Mormons supporting Republicans, but a strong minority (including Romney) who are confirmed liberals.
Matt. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
Sorry, I dont see anything in the Bible about a secret meeting in a forest with a teenager of highly questionable character or morals.
The Bible states that when Christ returns, it will be for the whole world to see. Not in secret.