Hoping and Praying for Gog and Magog to Attack

American Vision ^ | June 7, 2010 | Gary DeMar

[Maverick68]

bump

[LibertyRocks]

You should read my response, roamer_1 — it’s at post #40 — if you haven’t already...

I guess I didn’t explain myself clearly at all. And, perhaps my fears that this isn’t what we should be praying are unfounded anyway. A little egotistical of me perhaps to assume I understood, or presumed to ‘warn’ others?

All in all, I AGREE with the prophecies, and understand that the Lord gave us these things to be able to tell the ‘season’ of his return. I agree that the events in our world - especially in the recent months are sobering indeed.

I also suppose that to say what I said on this thread, given the OP’s POV - which I do NOT agree with - was perhaps a bad idea... LOL

[Quix]

I think you’re wayyy to hard on yourself.

You had fitting worthy points to share.

thx.

[LibertyRocks]

I understand, thanks for the reply. I looked and couldn’t even recall where the passage was that I remembered reading. I do recall the scripture you are talking about where it says, ‘even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus’. I really should just let God interpret others’ meanings in their prayers. Such a touchy subject is all of this...

Most of all, I didn’t mean to appear to be supporting the author’s notions that everything has ‘already passed’. I certainly do NOT believe that! LOL

Anyway, thanks for the reply. I think I should have perhaps stayed in bed yesterday because even in my own house people weren’t understanding what I tried to explain (on various different subjects)! LOL Oh well... :)

[LibertyRocks]

LOL — You’re right about being too hard on myself, as you know! :)
Thank you for the reminder!

[Lee N. Field]

Nuts. I've done that twice in nine years on FR. You'd think my mistake could go unnoticed at least once.

But noooo.ock

Calvary. Calvary. Calvary. (I have relatives in Calgary - my only defense.)

Calvary. Calvary. Calvary...

Cavalry, Cavalry, Cavalry....

[Lee N. Field]

Thanks for catching that. I missed that in brief perusal.

They tripped a few of my filters, right on the home page. Fortunately (unlike many), they put their statement of belief right up front.

[Lee N. Field]

cultism sorts of things. Y’all are likely much more experts on such things than I am.

Know the good well, to be able to detect the bad.

[Lee N. Field]

then the “cult” label is automatically thrown out most derisively.

Non-trinitarians are beyond the pale. Period.

[Lee N. Field]

I do not know if God is done with Israel and you don't either.

Did God's covenant with Abraham have a expiration date?

I know some dispensationalists go into a frothing rage over it, but we, Christians, are heirs of Abraham. So, the answer is "no".

[Lee N. Field]

Pink is not sound.

In what way? I've read very little of A. W. Pink, and not for a long, long time.

[xzins]

I agree with the point about not posting long, long, thread-of-their-own-worthy comments.

Quix: you’re a friend, but it did make it hard to scroll through this thread past all those long copy/pastes.

I think it would be better to either post the link or post a short, most relevant part of another article + the link.

So far as Gog/Magog, it strikes me that everyone (DeMar included) has demonstrated that they don’t yet know the answer.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

lol. You devil, you.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

First, HERE is a nifty little history and critique of dispensationalism which began in England around 1830 and drifted to the U.S. by 1870, no so coincidentally coinciding with the rise of spiritualism in this country.

It also coincides with the advent of the industrial age and its emphasis on oil. What better way to ensure our interests in Middle Eastern oil fields than to surround that area with a religious aura of significance?

Geopolitics crept in and many people were unaware.

Additionally, what better way to destroy Christian particularism than to say faith in Christ is a requirement for all...but not quite all. Not now.

This assertion undermines the Scriptural mandate to believe the Gospel THIS VERY DAY because none of us knows the time of either our death or Christ's return.

So it's a two-fer for those who work against the Gospel of grace.

But as I said earlier, this is not a salvation issue. It's more a parlor game; it's a guess. Some guesses are better than others; some guesses actually work against the word of God. But they are just guesses. All of them. And we are cautioned in Scripture to "avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." (Titus 3:9)

Suffice it to know that all believing Jews and all believing Gentiles are "all one in Christ Jesus."

And so we preach Christ risen to all men, confident all those who are His, at a time of His choosing, will hear the truth, love the truth and believe the truth to the saving of their eternal souls.

Here's a good book which addresses all the perspectives, with an emphasis on amillennialism...

A CASE FOR AMILLENNIALISM
UNDERSTANDING THE END TIMES

And of course, extolling the Scriptural assurance of the Gospel's success in this world, here's another very good book explaining the postmillennial perspective...

POSTMILLENNIALISM
ESCATOLOGY OF HOPE

And finally, as final support for this pov, I think dispensationalists tend to be aggressively one-sided which is not quite the case with the amils and postmils. Check out postmil Lorraine Boettner's elegant short discussion of the primary schools of thought. He not only presents the postmil position, but he also says positive things about and offers books detailing premillennialism and dispensationalism.

Postmillennialism: Representative Theologians

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Well, I don't know exactly what a dispensationalist is

Here is the truth about dispensationalists and what they believe:

Dispensationalism is a system of theology that has two primary distinctives. 1) A consistently literal interpretation of Scripture, especially Bible prophecy. 2) A distinction between Israel and the church in God's program.

Dispensationalists claim that their principle of hermeneutics is that of literal interpretation, which means giving each word the meaning it would commonly have in everyday usage. Symbols, figures of speech and types are all interpreted plainly in this method, and this is in no way contrary to literal interpretation. Even symbols and figurative sayings have literal meanings behind them.

There are at least three reasons why this is the best way to view Scripture. First, philosophically, the purpose of language itself seems to require that we interpret it literally. Language was given by God for the purpose of being able to communicate with man. The second reason is biblical. Every prophecy about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament was fulfilled literally. Jesus' birth, Jesus' ministry, Jesus' death, and Jesus' resurrection all occurred exactly and literally as the Old Testament predicted. There is no non-literal fulfillment of these prophecies in the New Testament. This argues strongly for the literal method. If literal interpretation is not used in studying the Scriptures, there is no objective standard by which to understand the Bible. Each and every person would be able to interpret the Bible as he saw fit. Biblical interpretation would devolve into “what this passage says to me...” instead of “the Bible says...” Sadly, this is already the case in much of what is called biblical interpretation today.

Dispensational theology teaches that there are two distinct peoples of God: Israel and the church. Dispensationalists believe that salvation has always been by faith—in God in the Old Testament and specifically in God the Son in the New Testament. Dispensationalists hold that the church has not replaced Israel in God’s program and the Old Testament promises to Israel have not been transferred to the church. They believe that the promises God made to Israel (for land, many descendants, and blessings) in the Old Testament will be ultimately fulfilled in the 1000-year period spoken of in Revelation chapter 20.

Dispensationalists believe that just as God is in this age focusing His attention on the church, He will again in the future focus His attention on Israel (Romans 9-11).

Using this system as a basis, dispensationalists understand the Bible to be organized into seven dispensations: Innocence (Genesis 1:1–3:7), conscience (Genesis 3:8–8:22), human government (Genesis 9:1–11:32), promise (Genesis 12:1–Exodus 19:25), law (Exodus 20:1–Acts 2:4), grace (Acts 2:4–Revelation 20:3), and the millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6). Again, these dispensations are not paths to salvation, but manners in which God relates to man.

Dispensationalism, as a system, results in a premillennial interpretation of Christ’s second coming and usually a pretribulational interpretation of the rapture. To summarize, dispensationalism is a theological system that emphasizes the literal interpretation of Bible prophecy, recognizes a clear distinction between Israel and the church, and organizes the Bible into the different dispensations it presents.

Just to counteract any flawed, biased "explanations" you may be treated to.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Remember, the Tribulation period begins with a "man of peace", the Antichrist, confirming a seven-year peace treaty between Israel and the nations.

That did not happen in 70AD. It is a future event.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

But the fact that some 30% of the Bible pertains to prophecy

If you say so. And most of that prophecy was fulfilled with the coming of Jesus Christ.

Here's a handy chart detailing the distinctions...

COVENANT THEOLOGY vs. DISPENSATIONAL THEOLOGY

I fall to the right. Whole-heartedly.

[kevao]

Wow, Giovanna, thanks for a most excellent reply! I guess I’ve always been a dispensationalist and just never knew it.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I guess I’ve always been a dispensationalist and just never knew it.

lol. You're perfectly within your right to make that statement.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

All it takes is simply believing what God has told us and simply taking Him at His word. That's all, and it's worked pretty well for millions of people! That's why none of us are surprised or upset about the headlines every day. We know about it already. And we know who wins the war in the end.

Oh, and not trashing any Scripture that nukes your belief system. That's extremely important!!