ok, is this a better depiction?
Quix: NOPE.
Not by a greatly larger margin.
Oh, then would this be the phantasmagoric reality spoken of?
Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
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"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
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Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
Two Comments
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
This is a great example of Roman Catholic apologists just making things up and apparently hoping no one calls them on it.
If I were an RC, I’d be greatly chagrinned and embarrassed if not outraged at how often that happens hereon.
WRONG.
GROSSLY WRONG.
NOPE.
Not by a greatly larger margin.
“. which sounds as if you don’t bother to read Catholic post — you maintain the opinion you started with.”
Exactly. That is why these threads are pretty much useless.
I’d rather deal with the ecumenical discussions in my own community with Christians than play these gotcha games with comfy-chair/snack-stuffing keboard jockey “missionaries.”
That KC post was just another example of the rush to post anything derogatory and nasty.
Due diligence, people. Due diligence.
I’m outta here.
Wrong. Here's post 12538:
To: Cronos Nope. Members of your group have these beliefs.
What "group" is that? I'm Presbyterian.
Even Unitarians can accurately point to the errors of Rome.
12,538 posted on Mon Oct 18 2010 13:48:34 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12527 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
Besides, 1000silverlings, I did not think Dr. E. would want to be associated with the largest Presbyterian group, the PCUSA. They are scandalously liberal.
Quix, the thing is that I really like to understand how people think -- that's why in "real life" I'm far more of a listener than a talker -- but I'm not getting a clear picture on these threads of the various Protestant beliefs. There are one or two exceptions of people putting forth a coherent account of what they actually believe (and I've had serious -- if brief -- discussions with them). From you, OTOH, well, I have a pretty clear idea of the eidolon you've constructed for yourself of Catholicism, but no real notion of what's central in your own belief, never mind of all that flows from it. Unless your whole belief system consists of "not Catholic is good enough for me!"
I've never even been acquainted with more than one or two practicing Protestants (a bigger number of those brought up Protestant). Similarly, I've met only a handful of practicing EOs (and those years ago) -- but I've gained a pretty good understanding (not complete, of course) and "feel for" the EO point of view from FR. I've known quite a few Jews, from totally secular to orthodox, and I have that kind of "feel for" Judaism. But my knowledge of modern Protestantism is totally from these threads -- and it strikes me (with the exceptions I mentioned) as a seething mass of hostility to the Catholic Church and not much else.
So what is your reality?
I pretty much agree with you.
Me poorly catechized? LOL!
I thought the Catholic church had all the answers. At least to hear the FRoman Catholics on these threads, it does.
As regards their dogmatic basis of the faith, sure. I am not the Church.
Strangley, I feel honored. :)
Well, Cronos, I just don’t know. I’m pretty sure Dr. E is OPC, but I’m not positive that she is. Now that 1000silverlings and metmom have gotten into the act, there doesn’t seem to be any purpose to inquiring, they’ll just ring up the RM and accuse me of breaking the rules. So there doesn’t seem to be any way to find out if she (Dr. Eckleburg) is a flaming liberal PCUSA or not.
And frankly, I’m tired of metmom.
Religion Moderator, this is only a courtesy ping because I mentioned you. No complaint.
You should get a medal. When I saw that, I thought of commenting to you -- !!!
No doubt about that. Paul even refers to his gospel as my gospel.
In these mega-threads I don't know that I've ever seen one Protestant correct another Protestant on a point of doctrine and what it really seems like is that as long as one isn't Catholic absolutely anything goes... as long as it doesn't look like it might be Catholic
That pretty much sums it up, L. There is nothing to correct. The whole Protestant "doctrine" is "I am saved and you are not." The details are irrelevant.
Then all the other ancient religions that still linger around, such as Hinduism, must also be true. No myth there either I suppose. You know, one really needs to think these fleeting generlaizaitons through before posting them.
Christianity would have had no impact of comparable proportions were it not made the only religion of the Roman Empire, the hyperpower of the ancient world, and were it not spread by sword via colonization by England and Spain and Portugal around the world. It has nothing to do with how true or false it is.
One can accept the veracity of Scripture on its own merit, but that does not constitute a proof, so it cannot be used as proof.
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