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Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ
LDS.org ^ | Dennis B. Neuenschwander

Posted on 01/02/2011 5:46:30 PM PST by Paragon Defender

Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ

By Elder Dennis B. Neuenschwander Of the Seventy

 

 

 

Dennis B. Neuenschwander, “Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ,” Ensign, Jan 2009, 16–22

Adapted from a presentation to the Seventy.

 

 

 

In the Doctrine and Covenants we read that Joseph Smith was “called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ” (D&C 20:2). The call of an Apostle is first to witness or testify of Jesus Christ. Old Testament prophets testified of His coming. The New Testament Apostles bore personal witness of Christ’s being and of the absolute reality of His Resurrection. This apostolic witness was the basis of their teaching. “Ye shall be witnesses unto me” (Acts 1:8) was Jesus’s instruction to the original Twelve. Peter testified on the day of Pentecost to the Jews who had gathered “out of every nation” (Acts 2:5) that “this Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses” (Acts 2:32). Similarly, Paul wrote to the Corinthians that Jesus “was seen of me also” (1 Corinthians 15:8). The sure witness of Christ’s being and the reality of His Resurrection is the first pillar of apostolic testimony.

The second pillar is centered on the Savior’s redemptive and saving power. Peter teaches that to the Lord “give all the Prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43).

Without these twin pillars of testimony concerning Christ, there could be no Apostle. Such testimonies are born of experience, divine command, and instruction. For example, Luke writes that Christ showed Himself to the Apostles “alive after his passion … being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God” (Acts 1:3).

How does the Prophet Joseph Smith fit into these apostolic requirements? The answer is “Perfectly.”

The First Vision

Joseph Smith’s apostolic instruction began in 1820. Pondering the questions of religion, he soon found that there was no way to reason or argue one’s opinion to an authoritative conclusion concerning the correctness of the various churches or their doctrines. Short of a divine manifestation, young Joseph could add only one more opinion to the already existing “war of words and tumult of opinions” (Joseph Smith—History 1:10). But Joseph’s questions on religion were answered by the personal and physical manifestation of God the Father and His divine and living Son, Jesus Christ—an experience referred to as the First Vision.

Like that of the original Apostles, Joseph’s experience with Deity was direct and personal. There was no need for the opinion of others or the deliberations of a council to define what he saw or what it came to mean to him. Joseph’s vision was at first an intensely personal experience—an answer to a specific question. Over time, however, illuminated by additional experience and instruction, it became the founding revelation of the Restoration.

As apostolic as this manifestation of Christ’s being, existence, and Resurrection was to Joseph Smith, it was not the only thing Jesus wanted to teach him. The boy Joseph’s first lesson arose from the manifestation of Christ’s absolute, omnipotent, and divine power. Joseph learned firsthand at least one meaning of the redeeming and saving power of Christ when he prayed in the grove. As he began to pray, “Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction” (Joseph Smith—History 1:15). With every bit of energy Joseph had, he began to call upon God to deliver him from the grasp of this enemy.

“At the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction … , I saw a pillar of light. …

“It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound” (Joseph Smith—History 1:16–17).

Joseph Smith’s confrontation with the adversary is reminiscent of an experience Moses had, about which the Prophet would learn some few years later. Unlike the boy Joseph, however, Moses saw God’s greatness first and then was confronted with the power of the adversary before being delivered from his influence. (See Moses 1.)

The difference in the order of events is significant. Moses was already far into maturity and had much knowledge and influence prior to this event. By displaying His magnificent power to Moses before he faced the adversary, the Lord helped Moses put his life into perspective. After experiencing God’s glory, Moses said, “Now, for this cause I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed” (Moses 1:10). This incident enabled Moses to withstand the temptations of the adversary that followed.

Joseph Smith, on the other hand, was an inexperienced young man, who in his lifetime would repeatedly face adversarial power and the overwhelming problems it brings. By facing the adversary first, then being saved from his assault by the appearance of the Father and the Son, Joseph learned this indelible lesson: as great as the power of evil might be, it must always withdraw with the appearance of righteousness.

This lesson was critical in Joseph’s apostolic education. He needed this knowledge not only because of the personal trials that lay ahead of him but also because of the overwhelming opposition he would face in founding and directing the Church.

The boy Joseph went into the grove seeking wisdom, and wisdom he received. His apostolic instruction had begun. Among the great apostolic lessons of this First Vision were both the physical nature of the Savior and Heavenly Father and the initial and fundamental lessons relating to Their power—each a pillar of apostolic testimony.

The Book of Mormon

Joseph Smith’s early apostolic instruction continued with his translation of the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon gave Joseph access to “the fulness of the everlasting Gospel” (Joseph Smith—History 1:34), principles that were necessary to understand even prior to the organization of the Church. The Prophet was introduced to numerous “plain and most precious” (1 Nephi 13:26) prophetic and apostolic testimonies regarding the Savior, all of which served as models for him.

Indeed, the Book of Mormon prophets employ over 100 titles in their teachings of Christ, each of which helped Joseph understand the Savior’s divine role.1 By virtue of these teachings, Joseph Smith became intimately acquainted with ancient prophets, giving him insight into the divine purpose of his responsibilities.

The Book of Mormon illuminates the universality of Christ’s Atonement. The Savior’s holy sacrifice is not confined to the borders of the Holy Land of His day or even restricted to the apostolic world of the original Twelve. The Atonement encompasses all of God’s creations—past, present, and future. What an impression Jacob’s teaching of the “infinite atonement” (2 Nephi 9:7) must have made on the mind of young Joseph, especially in contrast to Christian teachings at the time.

The Book of Mormon also introduces the universality of the Resurrection and other doctrines relating to it. Discourses on this doctrine by Lehi, Jacob, King Benjamin, Abinadi, Alma, Amulek, Samuel the Lamanite, and Moroni are all rich sources of instruction.

During the translation of the Book of Mormon, the Prophet received additional valuable personal instruction concerning the redemptive and saving power of Christ. In 1828 Martin Harris persuaded Joseph to lend him the first 116 pages of the Book of Mormon manuscript. When Martin Harris lost those pages, the Prophet felt an enormous despair.2 His mother, Lucy Mack Smith, recorded that Joseph exclaimed: “Oh, my God! … All is lost! all is lost! What shall I do? I have sinned—it is I who tempted the wrath of God. … How shall I appear before the Lord? Of what rebuke am I not worthy from the angel of the Most High?”3

For well over a month the Lord left Joseph in this terrible condition of remorse.4 Then came relief and the apostolic lesson. The Lord told Joseph:

“The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught. …

“For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him” (D&C 3:1, 4).

These words carefully describe what Joseph Smith had been experiencing. He had learned the exacting nature of the apostolic call and to whom the Apostle, at all cost, owes his loyalty. “Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words,” Joseph was told, “yet you should have been faithful” (D&C 3:7–8). Joseph Smith had lost access to the plates for a season and had been taught an invaluable lesson. Subsequently, the plates were returned, and his position as translator restored.

How critical were the lessons provided by the translation of the Book of Mormon as Joseph Smith grew in his apostolic calling! The Book of Mormon is the “keystone of our religion”5 because it contains so many prophetic testimonies of Christ and stands as a tangible witness of the Restoration.

Continuing Revelation and Scripture

After finishing the translation of the Book of Mormon in 1829 and organizing the Church in 1830, Joseph Smith had the opportunity to receive continuing apostolic education through the process of translating other scripture. This included three years of translating the Bible and, beginning in 1835, translating the book of Abraham. Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible expanded his understanding of the role of Old Testament prophets and New Testament Apostles. It also resulted in additional revelation, namely the book of Moses.

The book of Moses provided the Prophet with important knowledge about the Savior’s ministry, including His role in the Creation. “The Lord spake unto Moses, saying: … I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things” (Moses 2:1). Further, He said, “And worlds without number have I created; … and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten” (Moses 1:33).

The book of Moses clarified Christ’s relationship to the Father in the premortal existence and reinforced the Prophet’s understanding of the ascendant power of righteousness. One of the most beautiful of all the apostolic lessons that came to Joseph Smith in this revelation was the confirmation of God’s love. It was so different from the harsh, unforgiving, and judgmental personage so many believed God to be; the book of Moses reveals a God of infinite compassion. Enoch saw that the “God of heaven … wept” (Moses 7:28) over those who would not receive Him. Wishing to know how it was possible, Enoch was given an answer that has a familiar biblical feel to it: “I [have] given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father. … Wherefore should not the heavens weep, seeing these shall suffer?” (Moses 7:33, 37; see also Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:37–39).

Through the translation of the book of Moses, the Prophet also became more acquainted with the redeeming and saving power of the Savior. As the Lord said, this earth was created “by the word of my power” (Moses 1:32) for the purpose of bringing “to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). Many long years before the Savior taught Thomas and the Twelve that “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6), He revealed to Moses that “this is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time” (Moses 6:62).

The First Vision in the grove, the translation of the Book of Mormon, the revision of the Bible, the revelation of the book of Moses, and the translation of the book of Abraham laid the basic foundation of the Church, largely through the rapidly expanding knowledge and testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith relating to Jesus Christ.

Revelations given to him and compiled in the Doctrine and Covenants contain a wealth of knowledge concerning the Savior. One could research the numerous topics and cross-references of the Topical Guide and Guide to the Scriptures referring to Jesus Christ and still not understand the breadth of information on the Savior that the Prophet Joseph Smith brought to the world. I am grateful to know that Jesus was “in the beginning with the Father” (D&C 93:21). I am grateful to know that He “suffered these things for [me], that [I] might not suffer if [I] would repent” (D&C 19:16).

My Testimony of What the Prophet Revealed

I am grateful for yet one other thing about the Savior’s ministry that stirs my soul deeply. From studying the promises of Malachi, Moroni’s initial visit with Joseph, the Savior’s words to the Nephites, and the visit of Elijah in the Kirtland Temple, I learn that God loves His children and has provided a way for each to return to Him. I know of no doctrine more just, no teaching that gives more hope than that of redemption of the dead. I am so grateful for the revelations that teach me that the Savior’s Atonement reaches to those who have lived, loved, served, and hoped for a better day yet never heard of Jesus or had the opportunity to embrace His gospel. This knowledge alone would be sufficient to convert me to the gospel if I knew nothing else at all. Here, at least for me, is the ultimate testimony of Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice.

What, then, can be said of the incomparable saving power of Christ? That which Joseph Smith learned in the Sacred Grove about the power of righteousness overcoming evil foreshadows the final scene. So reveals the Lord:

“I, having accomplished and finished the will of him whose I am, even the Father, concerning me—having done this that I might subdue all things unto myself—

“Retaining all power, even to the destroying of Satan and his works at the end of the world, and the last great day of judgment” (D&C 19:2–3).

Our own testimonies of the Savior are framed by the testimony and teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Is it any wonder then that the Prophet taught that “the fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”6

Joseph Smith’s apostolic testimony of the divine reality and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, as well as his knowledge of the redemptive and saving power of the Savior, can best be seen by the Prophet’s own beautiful, powerful, and succinct witness:

“And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).

How grateful I am for the apostolic call of Joseph Smith.

 

 

 

Notes

1. See Book of Mormon Reference Companion, ed. Dennis L. Largey (2003), 457–58.

2. See Lucy Mack Smith, History of Joseph Smith, ed. Preston Nibley (1958), 128–29.

3. History of Joseph Smith, 128, 129.

4. The 116 pages were lost in June 1828. In July Joseph Smith received what is now section 3 of the Doctrine and Covenants. In September the plates were returned to the Prophet. See the historical introductions to D&C 3; 10.

5. History of the Church, 4:461.

6. History of the Church, 3:30.

 

 

 

 

 

 


TOPICS: Breaking News; Other Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: braking; cult; heresy; inman; lds; lies; mormon; notbreakingnews; propaganda; religion
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To: Sontagged
The Mormons take a particularly immature stand with dead people getting baptized as Mormons.

Do NOT overlook the fact that this practice puts coin in the coffers of the mormon church. In order for a mormon to fulfill the requirement to baptize for the dead, he/she must have a "temple recommend" proving he is worthy to do so..and in order to recive this "recommend" he must be a full 10% tithepayer. Even the young teen-agers must meet this requirement.

461 posted on 01/03/2011 8:32:19 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (("A Leftist assumption: Making money doesn't entitle you to it, but wanting money does.")
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To: reaganaut

Next they will be posting “Praise to the Man”...

***

Yep and so did Moses and Abraham etc communed with Jehovah!

nitpicker are ya!


462 posted on 01/03/2011 8:38:38 AM PST by restornu ( "Our Saviors Love , http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=GZW3sj2TKsw&feature=related)
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To: restornu; aMorePerfectUnion; JDW11235; Normandy; 1010RD; Paragon Defender; DelphiUser; Grig
There was no proselytizing just Good Will to counter act all of the anti LDS daily propaganda!

Oh, give me a break!

PD referencing the "First Vision" of Joseph Smith in that article...

How is it "Good Will" to reference a source that labels ALL Christians as "corrupt" and ALL their creeds as an "abomination?" [see post #334]

How is it "Good Will" to talk about one man's literal distortion of the Bible (Smith's so-called "translation" of an English Bible into English -- when he couldn't read Greek or Hebrew)? [see post #334]

How is it "Good Will" for PD to post an article referencing a section of a book that points to a Book of Mormon violent Jesus (3 Nephi 8 & 9) and promotes occult contact with the dead [see post #454, #3 & 4]

The piece PD posted substitutes the focus on Christ with the focus on Joseph Smith. Mormons can't do enough to praise Smith on Dec. 23, when Christmas becomes Smithmas, so they have to sandwhich Christmas with even more "12 Days of Smithmas!"

463 posted on 01/03/2011 8:39:03 AM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links Some Lds use)
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To: reaganaut
(like me are converts). Nominal Christians.... who don’t know their Bible very well.

Which does explain why some are targeted in the first place. Mormons especially target the unsuspecting and those who know little of the scriptures. Just enough to say they are Christians....... which then the Mormon recruiter knows he can leave his book of Mormon with them...and use various Christian verbiage to entice them into their fold. They do this because it works on those who are not grounded in the scripture truths to begin with...and or have stunted growth in the things of the Lord.

Just as the educational system has been targeted by Liberals and Homosexuals to deceive and teach our youth to accept their agenda....so too Mormons go after those who are only just beginning to take in "the milk" of Gods word or are outside the Christian community.

"Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee"

464 posted on 01/03/2011 8:39:56 AM PST by caww
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To: Paragon Defender
Personally I hope you keep posting articles like this....

It just continues to expose mormonism for what it is....an anti-Christian cult!

Post on....PD!!

465 posted on 01/03/2011 8:47:00 AM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Ripliancum

“It would seem there is a bit of the spirit of Gov. Boggs on FR tonight. I would hope that we can all stop the infighting and focus on the real struggle we are engaged in.”

- - - - -
Oh yeah! ‘Look over there! These are not the Morgbots you are looking for”.

And, don’t think we didn’t catch the veiled reference to the Missouri Govenor that the Mormons tried to assassinate because he opposed them.


466 posted on 01/03/2011 8:47:06 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: restornu; reaganaut
Yep and so did Moses and Abraham etc communed with Jehovah!

True they did - but smith was a faker.

467 posted on 01/03/2011 8:47:23 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: greyfoxx39; Ripliancum; Jim Robinson; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; ..

or just eliminate Mormon discussions period.
- - - - - - - -

The LDS would LOVE this. Rather than debate and defend their faith, they would much prefer us to just ‘go away’ and leave them alone.

I was Mormon for several years, and I remember feeling the same way “why can’t the antis just leave us alone?”

Why? Because those of us who have been freed from the shackles of Mormonsim and brought to a saving faith in Jesus Christ want nothing more than to see others freed the same way.

Rather than hide behind ‘caucus’, how about the LDS try to actually defend their beliefs.

And Grey is correct about the proselytizing moving to Freepmail. On a thread the other day, Grig offered to answer some difficult questions on Mormonism posted to him via Freepmail rather than on the open forum. Now, while I don’t object to the use of Freepmail, in cases like this it allows them to give their side without any chance of being countered. If they really thought Mormonism was true, why not put it out there for the whole world to see and judge?

Having been Mormon, I know how smooth the ‘pat answers’ are and how they twist their teachings and words to sound ‘Christian’.

Courtesy ping to Grig.


468 posted on 01/03/2011 8:47:29 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: caww

It is not the same only the topic

Because the world has one way of doing things you think Church leaders are to have harbor hate and contention in their hearts.

You can caww but a child of God should not paint with a broad brush!

President Gordon B. Hinckley has consistently advocated dialogue and mutual respect in interfaith relations.

He has admonished members of the Church to cultivate “a spirit of affirmative gratitude” for those of differing religious, political, and philosophical persuasions, adding that “we do not in any way have to compromise our theology” in the process.

He gave this counsel: “Be respectful of the opinions and feelings of other people. Recognize their virtues; don’t look for their faults. Look for their strengths and their virtues, and you will find strength and virtues that will be helpful in your own life.” 1

BTW this was written in the Ensign 2000 » August


469 posted on 01/03/2011 8:48:31 AM PST by restornu ( "Our Saviors Love , http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=GZW3sj2TKsw&feature=related)
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To: Paragon Defender; Ripliancum
Why would anyone get upset about Caucus posts of a religious nature being posted in the Religion section of the board?

(Were my posts #334, 423, and 454 enough of a list of upsets for ya?)

You post offensive, provocative, inflammatory "stuff" and then seek to have your Maxwell Smart cone of silence to descend upon FREEPER Christians to keep them muzzled from responding in any way that objects with your myths & fantasies that you're forcing on the rest of us...all under the Ripliancum-attempted presentation of "religious diversity."

Well, if you want "diversity" -- then stop trumpeting Mormonism as Christianity!

470 posted on 01/03/2011 8:48:42 AM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links Some Lds use)
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To: restornu
Yep and so did Moses and Abraham etc communed with Jehovah!

Yes, Moses and Abraham ACTUALLY DID...

471 posted on 01/03/2011 8:48:55 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Syncro; restornu; Cronos; Sontagged; Tennessee Nana; TaraP; MHGinTN; DelphiUser; Colofornian
Thank you so very much for your insights and encouragements, dear brother in Christ! And thank you for linking back to my original post on this thread.

In reply to my post, restornu asked for proof of my claim that LDS doctrine teaches that God the Father had a Father who had a Father, etc.

These topics are referenced in LDS Scriptures on ...

Premortal Existence

Council in Heaven

... and explained further in Joseph Smith’s sermon on the plurality of “gods:”

I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years…

If Abraham reasoned thus—If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly, Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it.

I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before. He laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before. He did as He was sent, to lay down His life and take it up again; and then was committed unto Him the keys, &c. I know it is good reasoning…

The teaching is referenced again here in this LDS article:

People on Other Worlds

How Long Has This Been Going On?

This insight of the gospel into the subject of outer space is what makes the whole subject meaningful. When you look up into the heavens at night and see the countless numbers of stars, it is easy to imagine other people “out there” being tested and tried and experiencing struggles and joys somewhat similar to those we are going through. But the most exciting thing about this whole basic and fundamental concept is that it is true. Totally and completely true. People growing, developing, and finding fulfillment—out there!

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man. … he was once a man like us … God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth. …” 6

“If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and … God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. … And where was there ever a father without first being a son? … If Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? …

“He [Jesus] laid down His life, and took it up, the same as His Father had done before.” 7

Long before our God began his creations, he dwelt on a mortal world like ours, one of the creations that his Father had created for him and his brethren. He, with many of his brethren, was obedient to the principles of the eternal gospel. One among these, it is presumed, was a savior for them, and through him they obtained a resurrection and an exaltation on an eternal, celestial world. 8 Then they gained the power and godhood of their Father and were made heirs of all that he had, continuing his works and creating worlds of their own for their own posterity—the same as their Father had done before, and his Father, and his Father, and on and on…

The doctrine was also mentioned in an exchange between DelphiUser and Colofornian on another thread which I engaged for the same reason I did here. Namely, in my view, the doctrine that God is "a" God and not "the" God is the “poison pill” which prevents peace between Christians (Catholic, Protestant, etc.) and Mormons.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. - Revelation 1:7-8

God's Name is I AM.

472 posted on 01/03/2011 8:49:44 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Utah Binger

I want some of that.........


473 posted on 01/03/2011 8:50:19 AM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: jrolfedrev

excellent post, but I am waiting for the LDS to spin your words and come back with “we believe that too” (they don’t btw at least not how Christians mean it).

Mormons use Christian vocabulary but not a Christian dictionary.


474 posted on 01/03/2011 8:51:03 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Godzilla

Yep and so did Moses and Abraham etc communed with Jehovah!
True they did - but smith was a faker.

***

They also said that in Moses and Abraham time!


475 posted on 01/03/2011 8:51:29 AM PST by restornu ( "Our Saviors Love , http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=GZW3sj2TKsw&feature=related)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Well done.


476 posted on 01/03/2011 8:52:38 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: restornu

Yes, but Moses and Abraham have back up to their claims...

Joey, not so much...

http://carm.org/false-prophecies-of-joseph-smith

http://www.exmormon.org/prophet.htm

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/falseprophecies.htm

Not the greatest batting average...


477 posted on 01/03/2011 8:56:39 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: restornu; caww
President Gordon B. Hinckley has consistently advocated dialogue and mutual respect in interfaith relations. He has admonished members of the Church to cultivate “a spirit of affirmative gratitude” for those of differing religious, political, and philosophical persuasions, adding that “we do not in any way have to compromise our theology” in the process.

Resty, as you well know, respect in tone & attitude is quite distinct from respect in content accusations contained in "theology" you reference here!

Many Mormons may practice the former -- but NOT the latter!

(Sure: we know the typical Lds philosophy we hear: "Speak softly and carry a big Pearl of Great Price/Book of Mormon/D&C stick")

Definition of a 'big stick', Pearl of Great Price style:
"You Christian sects are 100% wrong;
100% apostates;
100% creedally putrid;
100% corrupt as believers...
...Signed: Cordially, your "nice" Mormon neighbor
P.S. "Of course, we'll be polite & use Lds missionary doorstep language like 'universal apostasy' instead of pointing our fingers right @ you..."
"...and we'll fund the outer darkness out of hundreds of different Pearl of Great Price & D&C & BoM translations which mention ALL of the above + how you're not the true & living church -- only the church of the devil...so our 'big stick' will seem once-removed..."
"...But make no mistake about it, we've sent out literally over 1 million Lds missionaries who've carried this 'Big Stick' around the world!!!"

Tell you what: When Mormons stop tithing to the Lds church -- or have you told SLC HQ to no longer use your tithe or gifts to go for the re-publishing of these highly inflammatory sections of...
...Pearl of Great Price (Joseph Smith - History vv. 18-21);
...D&C (like 1:30);
...BoM (like 1 Nephi 14)...

...then we can begin discussing this "contention" jumpstarted by Smith and his Mormon church.

478 posted on 01/03/2011 8:57:18 AM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links Some Lds use)
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To: restornu; Elsie; Colofornian

Who is nitpicking? no one sings “Praise to Abraham” or “Praise to Moses”. No one has nativity scenes depicting them in a cradle like the BYU did for Smith. No one makes holidays out of their birthdays, like the LDS do with Smith. In short, no one worships Abraham or Moses like the LDS worship Smith.

First, Smith didn’t ‘commune with Jehovah’, the first vision accounts don’t even have the demons giving names, just oblique references. So Smith had no proof it was god in the first place.

Second, NO CHRISTIAN EVER SINGS PRAISES TO ANY MAN. ONLY GOD IS WORTHY OF PRAISE. Yet the LDS have a hymn about Smith, singing his praises. That is disgusting.


479 posted on 01/03/2011 8:59:43 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: restornu; caww
President Gordon B. Hinckley has consistently advocated dialogue and mutual respect in interfaith relations.

Yet this same hinkley openly declared that the mormon 'Jesus' was not the same Jesus of Christianity.

480 posted on 01/03/2011 9:02:34 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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