Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ

LDS.org ^ | Dennis B. Neuenschwander

[dps.inspect]

You are right... I do not belong in the Mormon Cult... Thanks be to God.

[reaganaut]

We are not into RELIGION. We preach & believe in Jesus Christ.

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I have an LDS friend who I have been witnessing to for the past year. Early on I noticed that she always says ‘my religion’ where I always say ‘my faith’. She will say ‘my religion believes this” or “my religion does this”. It is never ‘my faith’. She has yet to notice (or at least comment) on the differences or ask me why I never use the word ‘religion’.

I have started to pay attention to see of it is common with other LDS and have found that it is.

Mormons talk about their ‘religion’. Christians talk about Jesus and their faith.

[Colofornian]

If you could hie to Kolob in the twinkling of an eye, And then continue onward with the speed of light to fly**, D'ye think that you could ever, through all eternity, Find out the generation where

Gods

began to be? Or see the grand beginning, where space did not extend? Or view the last creation where

Gods

and matter end? Methinks the Spirit whispers, "No man has found 'pure space'," Nor seen the outside curtains, where nothing has a place.

Exactly; Mormon leaders are polytheists, no different in their worship of "gods" than pagans.

JimRob took a very reasoned position in objecting to this article being placed in a protected "caucus" when the article's references themselves are so provocatively controversial.

Example from the article that Paragon Defender tried to sneek by as a "caucus": One could research the numerous topics and cross-references of the Topical Guide and Guide to the Scriptures referring to Jesus Christ and still not understand the breadth of information on the Savior that the Prophet Joseph Smith brought to the world.

I have a copy of the Topical Guide to the Scriptures of of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (published by the church-owned Deseret Book Company, 1977).

When you turn to p. 231, you see under the heading, JESUS CHRIST, CREATOR cont." this reference to "Abraham 4:1" from Joseph Smith "translating" an Egyptian funeral document: "

Gods

, organized and formed the heavens and the earth."

Paragon Defender evidently doesn't have the basic discernment to realize how provocative it is to Christians the Mormon mythical claim that

GODS

PLURAL were behind the creation of the heavens and the earth.

If Mormonism was a stand-alone religion -- like Scientology or Hinduism -- both of which don't claim to be Christianity -- then that would be one thing. But since it claims that we are "apostates" and they are the "restored Christianity," it is indeed highly inflammatory!

BTW, this 1977 book referenced by the author which Paragon Defender posted mentions the Book of Abraham in conjunction with Jesus on pp. 223, 228, 231, 234, 236, 240, 243, 244, 246; and also mentions the "Book of Moses" "translated" (as if Smith knew ANY Egyptian!) from the same Pearl of Great Price source -- also in conjunction with Jesus -- on pp. 222, 223, 226-229, 231-232, 234, 237, 240-244, 246, 249, 258.

[reaganaut]

No one here is going to convince anyone his way is right....why are they bothering?

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You sure about that? I know at least 3 freepers who have left Mormonism, one returned to the Catholic faith of their childhood and two are now Born Again Christians. All because of the Christians on this board who fight the LDS teachings.

[greyfoxx39]

It would seem there is a bit of the spirit of Gov. Boggs on FR tonight. I would hope that we can all stop the infighting and focus on the real struggle we are engaged in.

While not reading Jim's mind, I suspect he has grown tired of mormons making posts like this. Those of us who rebut the lies of mormonism on FR are continually compared to murderes, arsonists, called liars and the favorite word is bigot. There have been actual threats made against us on these pages, all in the name of "defending" Joseph Smith.

The caucus title has been used in an attempt to do nothing but proselytize by mormons in an attempt to avoid debate while their posts such as this one, denigrate Christianity.

52,000 daily missionaries and multi-million dollar PR campaigns such as the bait and switch "Get a Free Bible" by the mormon church are ongoing and there are hundreds of posts on FR by mormons whining about being "persecuted" because the actual facts about the cult are posted.

This "Governor Boggs" post is yet another "poor persecuted mormons" whine, and a back-handed slap at Jim Robinson in a sly comparison of Jim to Boggs, as Boggs issued the infamous "extermination order" because the mormons were out of control and posed a threat to other citizens.

On October 14, Smith declared a jihad type of holy war:

“If the people [of Missouri] come on us to molest us, we will establish our religion by the sword. We will trample down our enemies and make it one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean. I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Quran or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us – Joseph Smith or the Sword” –History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 167.

Three days later, Mormons led by a Danite loon named “Captain Fear-not” (originally named David Patten, he had apparently legally changed his name) looted everything they could haul off in Daviess County (a second riot perhaps).

On October 25, the Saints ambushed a Missouri National Guard unit consisting of about two dozen troops at a location south of Far West in what has since been named “the Crooked River Battle.” Four soldiers were killed along with one Mormon — Fear-not — who apparently thought he was invincible and charged the Guard on his own. When the Guard returned to claim their fallen comrades, the found the Saints had mutilated their bodies.

This series of incidents led to Governor Boggs’ “extermination order” on October 27. He activated the state’s entire guard of around 4,500 troops and approved their march on Far West.

So much for the poor persecuted mormons.

Read this letter that Smith sent to the Green Mountain Boys of Vermont, and see just what kind of "Apostle of Jesus Christ" Joseph Smith really was.

Link

"And in the appeal let me say; raise your towers, pile your monuments to the skies; build your steam frigates; spread yourselves far and wide, and open the iron eyes of your bulwarks by sea and land; and let the towering church steeples marshal the country like the "dreadful splendor" of an army with bayonets: but remember the destruction of Pharaoh and his hosts; remember the handwriting upon the wall, mene, mene, teke, upharsin; remember the angels visit to Sennacherib and the 185,000 Assyrians; remember the end of the Jews and Jerusalem, and remember the Lord Almighty will avenge the blood of his Saints that now crimsons the skirts of Missouri! Shall wisdom cry aloud, and her speech not be heard?"

[dragonblustar]

Boldly I stand with the Lord’s annoited servant Joseph Smith and Jesus Christ and the Heavenly Father.

While you're standing next to Joseph, which one of the 14 year old girls will you be standing next too? It's kind of strange that Joseph being the only apostle of Christ to have a sex addiction after meeting Jesus. He poked teenagers and married women. I think if he really did meet Jesus and God, he would have turned away from such lusts like Paul did but instead he acts more like a con man filling up on his own b.s.

Makes you wonder what Joseph's pick up line was?

[Not gonna take it anymore]

bump for later reading.

[colorcountry]

If we find an individual with leadership qualities and potential we do little to directly assist them. We point out possibilities and we open doors. We make introductions and write referrals and recommendations. We put our reputations on the line with every sponsorship. They have to do the work themselves. We aren't looking for Mormons, they just dominate the able and ambitious pool of possibilities.

We, we, we...all the way home. Sounds like you've fallen for their PR campaign. BTW, who is "we."

[Utah Binger]

Makes you wonder what Joseph's pick up line was?

What's your sign?

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

I’ve always heard the term “Queer as a three dollar bill”. Now we know where it came from.

[reaganaut]

am not a Mormon, but I do know that Mormons and Orthodox Jews have the least of divorces out of all religious denominations and have the least problems with Children and are very family oriented faiths, that help there own when ever they need it......

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Ummm...not quite. LDS divorce rate is about the same as the national average anymore. And they only ‘help their own’ if the person is ‘worthy’ (including paying tithing) and following other church rules.

Charity is meant to be for all (as Christ taught) not just the ‘worthy’. Because no one is worthy but Christ.

Mormonism did a good job of changing my behavior, but it couldn’t change my heart. Only Christ can (and did) do that and He isn’t found in Mormonism. I’ve been there, done that.

The Body of Christ isn’t found in denominations, it is found only in true believers and sadly, Mormon doctrine keeps its members from really knowing and having a relationship with Jesus and that is sad.

[Godzilla]

Nice, I do not condone polygamy. It Is an illegal practice and my religion requires me to obey the laws of the land.

Yet your religion's founder - smith - completely IGNORED the laws of the land and exempted himself from the LAWS of the land. And that continued through until a new "revelation" came to save prophet Wilford Woodruff from having his rear end thrown in jail.

I have pointed out that polygamy is Biblical.

And Jesus made God's will very clear - man was to be married to one woman at a time and vice versa.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Amen!

[reaganaut]

I don’t really know anything about Mormon Doctrine or Joseph Smith, but I do know Jesus hung out with Sinners some of the worst ones in his days....He stayed away from those Pesky Religious Hypocrites that thought they had everything purrfectly right with G-d.....

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“Pesky Religious Hypocrites that thought they had everything purrfectly right with G-d.....”

A perfect description of Mormonism. Seriously. They teach that they are the ONLY true church and the rest of us are apostates and of the ‘church of the devil’. It is all about religion to them, not Jesus.

I suggest reading up on Mormonism. It looks great from a distance but get close and you will see the soul eating maggots.

A couple of great places to start is:

www.irr.org/mit
www.mormonoutreach.org
www.utlm.org

[ejonesie22]

True, I forgot that LDS godhood is the advanced version of the “Heman’s women haters club”

[reaganaut]

“I don’t believe the same as the Catholics or Wiccans or Scientologists or Baptists either but I would not censor them if the appearance of the board was that they are welcome.”

____-————

Like the Mormons, Wiccans and Scientologists aren’t Christians either.

Catholics and Baptists can be however.

[WVKayaker]

Makes you wonder what Joseph's pick up line was?

"Let me show you my seer stones"!

As historians continue to sort through the beginnings of Mormonism, Dan Vogel's comprehensive inventory of all relevant primary documents is an unparalleled achievement. In this first of a multi-volume series, Joseph Smith's family--Emma, Katharine, Lucy, Joseph Sr., William, and others--recount how they became convinced of his high calling, feeling "the spirit of God like a burning fire shut up in [their] bones." These narratives are carefully presented in their original forms with full documentation and annotation.

As confidantes, the Smith family were intimately acquainted with their son's and brother's extraordinary supernatural encounters. Their narratives form an Urgeschichte that they repeated with considerable consistency over the years, despite the fact that Joseph's published autobiography, which became the accepted, canonized version, differs significantly in several areas.

According to family tradition, the young seer retired to his bedroom one evening after discussing the Bible with his parents and siblings. In a night vision he saw an angelic messenger who told him that his sins were forgiven and that he would uncover an ancient record buried near their home. The next day, working in the fields alongside his older brother, he fainted from lack of sleep and again saw the messenger who commanded him to go and retrieve the sacred record.

He found the book, which was inscribed in an unknown script on gold leaves, hidden in a stone box with a pair of eye-glasses, the lenses of which were made of diamonds the size of "an English crown only slightly thicker." By looking through the glasses, then at an opaque seer stone placed in a hat, the book's script appeared as illuminated English words. He published his translation as the Book of Mormon. Later, in a friend's bedroom, Joseph was impressed to ordain elders and to organize a new church. Almost immediately his followers performed miracles, beginning with a dramatic levitation and exorcism which inaugurated the restoration of primitive Christianity. ...

http://www.lds-mormon.com/emd.shtml

[Godzilla]

For most purposes, the KJV is good. As I understand it the LDS group uses a different translation or an edited version of the KJV, is that correct?

The popular lds version is the KJV but with added footnotes from smith's "inspiried" so-called 'translation' of the KJV which was suppose to have 'fixed' all the corruption of the bible over the ages. Known as the JST or inspired version (IV), the RLDS/Church of Christ owns the copyrite to it, but allows LDS to footnote etc. The JST is an academic horror story to the so called prophetic power of smith and his 'version' contradicted the existing lds scriptures. Infact, iirc, even the POGP (Book of Moses) was 'edited' after bring'em young's death to fall in line with the JST's "translation".

PD's question is worthless - good biblical scholarship goes back to the extant Greek and Hebrew texts that the various translations are based upon. Some mormons must also believe that these extant MS are also 'translated' with a peep stone given their ignorance of the subject.

[ejonesie22]

That’s funny, I don’t care who you are...

[greyfoxx39]

I think you would have a hard time moderating the Glenn Beck threads to make sure they didn't digress

In my opinion, once Glenn openly endorses and shills for Romney or Huntsman, there won't be a big problem in moderating the Beck threads.