The Not So Secret Rapture

reformed.org ^ | W. Fred Rice

[topcat54]

Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.

[Cronos]

Which means no man can cause another man to lose it

Not completely. You can lose it on your own :-)

Therefore, opinions expressed by me on this forum are incapable of causing anyone to lose his or her faith. -- if by "cause" on includes "influence", then yes, opinions expressed by you could cause it. An indirect cause, but a 'cause' nonetheless

[Dr. Eckleburg]

It’s also against the rules to post excerpts without attribution. You’ve done that twice now tonight so this breach appears to be habitual with you since you did it all last week. Thankfully, your posts were removed.

You put Free Republic in jeopardy of violating copyright laws by posting excerpts without attribution.

Not to mention your excerpt is nuts. (But that’s to be expected, considering your history.)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

but, in faith, the human intellect and will co-operate with divine grace

That is a semi-to-full Pelagian heresy.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You respond with nonsense. Is it impossible for you to stick to one topic?

You broke the rules of FR RF by posting Latin without translation.

Try to abide by the rules.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

No. Not "anyone."

Just fools.

[Cronos]

That's no excerpt, that's a fact.

No wonder Calvinists are so bitter, Calvin's father and brother both worked for the bishopric of Noyon in Picardy as a treasurer and lawyer.

Calvin's father, Gerard, was involved in some financial misdeeds and refused to provide the financial records to the Bishop of Noyon . Gerard was excommunicated for his misdeeds and later on so was his son Charles.

Gerard then made John Calvin leave his theological studies to become a French Lawyer, which is very apropos considering what John learned from his father. John's ever growing bitterness against the Church for the excommunication of his father and brother forced him to leave the Church altogether.

And now you know the roots of Calvinism and its bitterness.

The problem is that the followers of Calvin hate the followers of Christ and

The Rabid Calvinist cult wants

CONTROL!!

They wish to set up their police-state to enforce their idea that
Calvinism = Christianity

Which is FALSE and egotistical -- just like Calvin himself, are Calvin's followers

[Cronos]

Hardly! posting foreign words with the translation is allowed. Dobra noc = Bon nuit = Buenos noches = Gute Nacht = शुभ रात्रि = Good night = bonam noctem

Vade retro= step back.

Do read up on the rules of FR -- no personal attacks, etc.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Did you write those paragraphs?

If not, you are breaking the rules and putting FR in jeopardy.

And you seem happy about both those facts. Weird.

So how far are you willing to take this falsehood of yours? Did you write those paragraphs or would a google search reveal they are the work of someone else?

[Cronos]

The fumble-fingered Rabid Calvinist Cult wishes to make everyone bow down to their interpretation and state that false Calvinism is supposed to be the be-all and end-all of Christianity --> that's WRONG.

According to the followers of Calvin, if man can resist God then God is no longer a Sovereign God and man is Sovereign. Thus they claim that it is impossible for man to accept or reject God’s salvation.

however, the Bible says man does resist and reject God, and this has been true since the earliest days: Adam rejected God’s Word. Cain rejected it. Noah’s generation rejected it. The men gathered at the Tower of Babel rejected it.

Calvinism is NOT biblical.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You conveniently forgot a word, didn’t you?

What is the translation of your post 1991?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2657209/posts?page=1991#1991

“Vade retro satana”

Maybe you’re embarrassed by your word choice? Feeling a little guilty? Worried about how it might look to be caught in another falsehood?

“Vade retro satana” — your words. Your post. Your folly.

[Cronos]

Another good proof against Calvinist false teachings is at called to communion

Which points out that

A second problem with the Reformed conception is the following dilemma. If God the Father was pouring out His wrath on the Second Person of the Trinity, then God was divided against Himself, God the Father hating His own Word.

God could hate the Son only if the Son were another being, that is, if polytheism or Arianism were true.

But if God loved the Son, then it must be another person (besides the Son) whom God was hating during Christ’s Passion. And hence that entails Nestorianism, i.e. that Christ was two persons, one divine and the other human. He loved the divine Son but hated the human Jesus.

Hence the Reformed conception conflicts with the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Of course men reject the truth. You’ve done it multiple times tonight.

And somehow, through the great mystery that is God’s universe, He ordains all of it, for His glory and the welfare of His saints.

Pray He will ordain your deliverance from idolatry and error.

[Cronos]

Another good proof against Calvinist false teachings is at called to communion

Which points out that

A second problem with the Reformed conception is the following dilemma. If God the Father was pouring out His wrath on the Second Person of the Trinity, then God was divided against Himself, God the Father hating His own Word.

God could hate the Son only if the Son were another being, that is, if polytheism or Arianism were true.

But if God loved the Son, then it must be another person (besides the Son) whom God was hating during Christ’s Passion. And hence that entails Nestorianism, i.e. that Christ was two persons, one divine and the other human. He loved the divine Son but hated the human Jesus.

Hence the Reformed conception conflicts with the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity

[Dr. Eckleburg]

And while you’re at it, you might as well pray you learn how to post within the rules of the FR RF.

[Cronos]

Hardly -- unlike you I accept the Truths of Christ but I reject the "truths" of Calvin

men reject the truth. You’ve done it multiple times tonight.
Pray He will ordain your deliverance from idolatry and error.






REJECT the teachings of Calvin and ACCEPT THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST.

[Cronos]

Of course, the problem is that Calvinists want to re-instate the GEneva police state



Stephen Hick's "John Calvin's Geneva

The city-state of Geneva was in effect, a police state, ruled by a Consistory of five pastors and twelve lay elders, with the bloodless figure of the dictator looming over all, John Calvin....

Frail, thin, short, and lightly bearded, with ruthless, penetrating eyes, he was humorless and short-tempered. The slightest criticism enraged him. Those who questioned his theology he called “pigs,” “asses,” “riffraff,” “dogs,” “idiots,” and “stinking beasts.” One morning he found a poster on his pulpit accusing him of “Gross Hypocrisy.” A suspect was arrested. No evidence was produced, but he was tortured day and night for a month till he confessed. Screaming with pain, he was lashed to a wooden stake. Penultimately, his feet were nailed to the wood; ultimately he was decapitated.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Do you have any concept of what "propitiation" for our sins means? Do you know what a "justifier" does and why a "justifier" is necessary?

Read Paul and learn...

"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." -- Romans 3:24-26

Why "blood," Cronos?

[Cronos]

the OPC/PCA dreams of a police state like Geneva, where they attacked fellow Protestants as exemplified in

1. Belot, an Anabaptist was arrested for passing out tracts in Geneva and also accusing Calvin of excessive use of wine. With his books and tracts burned, he was banished from the city and told not to return on pain of hanging (J.L. Adams, The Radical Reformation, pp. 597-598).
2. Jacques Gruent was racked and then executed for calling Calvin a hypocrite
3. A man who publicly protested against the reformer's doctrine of predestination was flogged at all the crossways of the city and then expelled.
4. Calvin's Letter to the Marquis Paet, chamberlain to the King of Navarre, 1561. "Honour, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains; but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those scoundrels [Anabaptists and others], who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard."

Sources quoted in Philip Schaff's History of the Christian Church, vol. 8:

• "The death penalty against heresy, idolatry and blasphemy and barbarous customs of torture were retained. Attendance at public worship was commanded on penalty of three sols. Watchmen were appointed to see that people went to church. The members of the Consistory visited every house once a year to examine the faith and morals of the family. Every unseemly word and act on the street was reported, and the offenders were cited before the Consistory to be either censured and warned, or to be handed over to the Council for severer punishment."

• Several women, among them the wife of Ami Perrin, the captain-general, were imprisoned for dancing.

• A man was banished from the city for three months because on hearing an ass bray, he said jestingly 'He prays a beautiful psalm.'

• A young man was punished because he gave his bride a book on housekeeping with the remark: 'This is the best Psalter.'

• Three men who laughed during a sermon were imprisoned for three days.

• Three children were punished because they remained outside of the church during the sermon to eat cakes.

• A man who swore by the 'body and blood of Christ' was fined and condemned to stand for an hour in the pillory on the public square.

• A child was whipped for calling his mother a thief and a she-devil.

• A girl was beheaded for striking her parents.

• A banker was executed for repeated adultery.

• A person named Chapuis was imprisoned for four days because he persisted in calling his child Claude (a Roman Catholic saint) instead of Abraham.

• Men and women were burnt to death for witchcraft. (See Pike, pp. 55,56).

From Other Sources:

• Belot, an Anabaptist was arrested for passing out tracts in Geneva and also accusing Calvin of excessive use of wine. With his books and tracts burned, he was banished from the city and told not to return on pain of hanging (J.L. Adams, The Radical Reformation, pp. 597-598).

• Martin Luther said of Calvin's actions in Geneva, "With a death sentence they solve all argumentation" (Juergan L. Neve, A History of Christian Thought, vol. I, p. 285).

• "About the month of January 1546, a member of the Little Council, Pierre Ameaux, asserted that Calvin was nothing but a wicked man - who was preaching false doctrine. Calvin felt that his authority as an interpreter of the Word of God was being attacked: he so completely identified his own ministry with the will of God that he considered Ameaux's words as an insult to the honour of Christ. The Magistrates offered to make the culprit beg Calvin's pardon on bended knees before the Council of the Two Hundred, but Calvin found this insufficient. On April 8, Ameaux was sentenced to walk all round the town, dressed only in a shirt, bareheaded and carrying a lighted torch in his hand, and after that to present himself before the tribunal and cry to God for mercy" (F. Wendel, Calvin, pp. 85, 86).

"Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?" James 3:11.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

lol. Your argument is so weak you have to repost the same comment.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Thank you. I just love those great old statues of the fathers of the Reformation.

Notice no one is praying to them.

Try to learn from them.