Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
Poking sleeping dogs with sharp sticks and then wailing and protesting about the resulting growls
is a rather perverse way to provoke the universe into demonstrating that one has some grovelingly feeble worth in their existence.
It tends to be a rather feeble, whimpering, gasp of a feeble sense of worth—yet it’s far better than none.
Only The God of The Bible can extend true value to individuals.
Even Jean Paul Satre recognized that for the finite to have meaning, it must have a meaningful and true connection to THE INFINITE. Jean Paul never found that connection that we know of. He sure facilitated trasing others’ connections as well.
That Christ died for each of us is the INFINITE VALUE. That we accept His propitiary Death and Hope in our like-mannered RESURRECTION LIFE IN HIM is the least we can offer in return.
Some refuse to so offer and prefer to wail and rant about how awful the universe is that it wasn’t created in THEIR image.
Well put.
At best . . . such dogs
can only fantasize gumming the cars to death if they catch them.
Thousands of witnesses “saw” the sun “dancing” and “falling” towards earth in Fatima in 1917. It never happened.
Extensive research indicates that a large brilliantly lit UFO in a somewhat typical demonstration . . . blotted out the sun and made the movements described.
Then the Vatican system took over and easily manipulated MOST of the peasants and even elevated persons and their perspectives to the Vatican’s will on the matter—and has been doing so ever since.
Deceptions from the enemy’s camp are not to be misconstrued as successfully trashing the truths of God and Scripture, however.
LOL.
If someone has already fallen off a logical cliff, how much further can they step back?
Same old, same old Dr. E, like all followers of Calvin, no scripture, just their own flawed interpretation.
Please avoid
using my gifs and thereby stealing my photobucket bandwidth and Hard Disk storage allotments.
Please ask the RM to remove that post.
I have told you how you can go to photobucket.com and set up your own account and load the gifs you wish from their library into your new account and then post them honorably.
Read post 2047.
Thanks for your understanding.
Photobucket is a great place but it does have fairly strict rules.
And, it is more fitting that you have your own account to do with according to your sensibilities.
Yes, in large measure, the unexamined life is not worth much.
However . . . an endless loop of futile and logically absurd mental masturbation is not exactly progress.
"[N]othing could have been devised more likely to instruct and benefit the pious reader of sacred Scripture than that, besides describing praiseworthy characters as examples, and blameworthy characters as warnings, it should also narrate cases where good men have gone back and fallen into evil, whether they are restored to the right path or continue irreclaimable; and also where bad men have changed, and have attained to goodness, whether they persevere in it or relapse into evil; in order that the righteous may be not lifted up in the pride of security, nor the wicked hardened in despair of cure" (Against Faustus 22:96 [A.D. 400]).Remember also that Augustine rejected any notion of an invisible Church and believed in sacraments (Augustine too believed that Christ was really present in the Eucharist)
well, I didn’t know — however, it was an apt image for the good doctor’s post. Good choice of imagery on your account.
21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die.
22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live...
24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
26 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die.
27 But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. 28 Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die.
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known himCalvinists use this to plumb the depths of despair as since they do not believe in repentence, then anyone who does not do what is right the Calvinist believe they were never really Christian
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known himCalvinists use this to plumb the depths of despair as since they do not believe in repentence, then anyone who does not do what is right the Calvinist believe they were never really Christian since they would fail the P 'Perseverance'.
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of Godand Galatians 5:19-21
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.The Calvinist will say anyone who did this was never really Christian at all -- in the Calvinist scheme, there is no repentence, no forgiveness, no loving, forgiving God
20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble.For further discussion see Robert Shank, Life in the Son (Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1989) and Dale Moody, The Word of Truth (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1981), 348ff. Both authors are Baptists who believe in conditional security, not eternal security.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree
LOL.
Thanks. I think.
Yeah, the pics sometimes really do substitute well for a lot of words and for times when words just don’t suffice.
Certainly we believe the Scripture about blaspheming Holy Spirit.
42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”
Yes, and blaspheming the Holy Spirit is what we Catholics would call a Mortal Sin — a sin that can lose us our salvation freely granted by Christ. Hence Christ was careful to warn us about this
Actually no it's not....but there are many counterfeits and false prophets, Christ said that would be so. Some are clearly so, others hide behind a cloak of Christianity. However we are responsible for discerning the difference and God is faithful to assist us in that determination. Generally speaking if one is familiar with scripture it's not difficult to determine....though sometimes it takes time to. Anything which opposes scripture should be a red flag.
Persecution of the Waldenses in France
Popery having brought various innovations into the Church, and overspread the Christian world with darkness and superstition, some few, who plainly perceived the pernicious tendency of such errors, determined to show the light of the Gospel in its real purity, and to disperse those clouds which artful priests had raised about it, in order to blind the people, and obscure its real brightness. The principal among these was Berengarius, who, about the year 1000, boldly preached Gospel truths, according to their primitive purity. Many, from conviction, assented to his doctrine, and were, on that account, called Berengarians. To Berengarius succeeded Peer Bruis, who preached at Toulouse, under the protection of an earl, named Hildephonsus; and the whole tenets of the reformers, with the reasons of their separation from the Church of Rome, were published in a book written by Bruis, under the title of "Antichrist."
By the year of Christ 1140, the number of the reformed was very great, and the probability of its increasing alarmed the pope, who wrote to several princes to banish them from their dominions, and employed many learned men to write against their doctrines.
In A.D. 1147, because of Henry of Toulouse, deemed their most eminent preacher, they were called Henericians; and as they would not admit of any proofs relative to religion, but what could be deduced from the Scriptures themselves, the popish party gave them the name of apostolics. At length, Peter Waldo, or Valdo, a native of Lyons, eminent for his piety and learning, became a strenuous opposer of popery; and from him the reformed, at that time, received the appellation of Waldenses or Waldoys.
Pope Alexander III being informed by the bishop of Lyons of these transactions, excommunicated Waldo and his adherents, and commanded the bishop to exterminate them, if possible, from the face of the earth; hence began the papal persecutions against the Waldenses.
The proceedings of Waldo and the reformed, occasioned the first rise of the inquisitors; for Pope Innocent III authorized certain monks as inquisitors, to inquire for, and deliver over, the reformed to the secular power. The process was short, as an accusation was deemed adequate to guilt, and a candid trial was never granted to the accused.
The pope, finding that these cruel means had not the intended effect, sent several learned monks to preach among the Waldenses, and to endeavor to argue them out of their opinions. Among these monks was one Dominic, who appeared extremely zealous in the cause of popery. This Dominic instituted an order, which, from him, was called the order of Dominican friars; and the members of this order have ever since been the principal inquisitors in the various inquisitions in the world. The power of the inquisitors was unlimited; they proceeded against whom they pleased, without any consideration of age, sex, or rank. Let the accusers be ever so infamous, the accusation was deemed valid; and even anonymous informations, sent by letter, were thought sufficient evidence. To be rich was a crime equal to heresy; therefore many who had money were accused of heresy, or of being favorers of heretics, that they might be obliged to pay for their opinions. The dearest friends or nearest kindred could not, without danger, serve any one who was imprisoned on account of religion. To convey to those who were confined, a little straw, or give them a cup of water, was called favoring of the heretics, and they were prosecuted accordingly. No lawyer dared to plead for his own brother, and their malice even extended beyond the grave; hence the bones of many were dug up and burnt, as examples to the living. If a man on his deathbed was accused of being a follower of Waldo, his estates were confiscated, and the heir to them defrauded of his inheritance; and some were sent to the Holy Land, while the Dominicans took possession of their houses and properties, and, when the owners returned, would often pretend not to know them. These persecutions were continued for several centuries under different popes and other great dignitaries of the Catholic Church.
From Foxe's Book of Martyrs
Seems like whatever wrongs Calvin did, he learned it sitting on the lap of Rome.
I have no problem understanding Dr. E’s view....though I believe man has a choice, God does move man to that point of decision when He is seeking the truth. The issue really is if one is seeking God and His truth or are they simply desirous of a stage to voice their opinions and challenge those who do believe...sort of as a game of sport.
If one is being drawn to God he can resist...we see this. But eventually there does come a point of decision...and a step of faith. When one continues to reframe the same questions, statements etc. they are simply extending conversation to entertain themself.
So if one was to answer yet another question...is that person prepared to accept Christ if that question is answered? The answer to this would be telling.
BTW...fighter jets flying low over the square in Egypt now. Crowd roars back in defiance....extreme volume in their voices.
Ahhhhhhhhh....for the good ol' days. ;O)
And we can raise you a corrupt pope or ten.....
Top 10 Most Wicked Popes
http://listverse.com/2007/08/17/top-10-most-wicked-popes/
Do you have so little on Calvin that you have to go digging back in his family for something to use against him?
Unlike the gracious loving Roam Catholic church who brought us the Inquisition.
And who's popes have said, "http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html"
Pope Boniface VIII says....*Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.*
And Catholics who say that whoever is baptized, no matter when or where or by whom is by default a Catholic?
Or Catholics who say once a Catholic always a Catholic?
Catholics and Catholicism are in no position to be pointing fingers and condemning others of trying to control them.
Talk about control. Be subject to the Roman pontiff or burn for eternity?!?!?!
Sounds like your average modern day evolutionist. Dawkins and his ilk come immediately to mind.
And they say that *science* is not a religion.
right.....
Yeah. I mean really. Atheists have such a better track record.
Like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, Castro......
Obey the commands of the OPC Catholic church cult leaders.
CONTROL !!
is what the OPC Catholic church cult wants
To re-create the police state of Geneva Rome is their aim
That is why the OPC Calvinist Catholic church could say
Christianity= Calvinism Catholicism
Wow. The Roman Catholicsmhave some real projection issues, no?
:)
Hoss
Ya think?
Romans 2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things.
I’m sure that Calvin was much shorter and more plastic than this.
The correct terminology is born from above.
Or that the work of God is to believe Him (John 6) Or that salvation is through faith (Luke 18, John 3)
Either your catechesis was execrable or your learning was.
And where did Jesus instruct us to pray to those canonized as saints and to Mary?
Why are you worried about Jesus? Don't you mean Paul? 2 Corinthians: 13 Through the evidence of this service, you are glorifying God for your obedient confession of the gospel of Christ and the generosity of your contribution to them and to all others, 14 while in prayer on your behalf they long for you, because of the surpassing grace of God upon you.
Or to establish a new system of works by which to earn our salvation?
Hardly new and works do not earn salvation. However, I suggest that you begin with Matthew 5 and read through until Matthew 8 for further education.
So establish a new tradition to replace the one He spend three years condemning because it nullified God’s word?
It is the Reformation that established a new tradition.
Where did Jesus instruct us to canonize saints to begin with?
Canonization is the recognition of those who have led holy lives and therefore are most probably in Heaven. If you do not wish to consider that individuals may be in Heaven now, that is your privilege. We Christians would recognize those who lead Christian lives.
The Catholic church of course ignores Scripture it finds inconvenient. That’s why, even though Peter called Paul’s writings *Scripture* the Catholic church dismisses them as insignificant.
False. Paul is, with Peter, what we consider to be the greatest of the Apostles. We do not dismiss his writings as insignificant. We do dismiss the writings of Calvin and his successors as insignificant, though, if that is what you are referring to.
Neither. Examination of the best sources that we have do not permit it to be called infallible. However, it is close enough to be interpreted through the Church infallibly.
So? I'm a computer analyst who deals with a great deal in statistical data. I to am interested in facts where facts matters. So let's look at the facts. You state that you believe in the infallible word of God. Then you state that we don't really have the word of God as it exist. Then you state that the Nicene Council agree on the word of God. Then you state that you appreciate kosta's view on how scripture develop even though he doesn't agree on the infallibility or inerrancy of scripture. Those are the facts. So for someone to tell me they're interested in facts, don't these facts seem a bit inconsistent?
Big deal. You can manipulate anything with statistics. The facts as we know them are that there were the original writings of whomever wrote them in Greek. Then they were manipulated over the first three centuries in Greek. Then they were chosen by the Church at Nicea. Then they were translated into Latin. Then they were translated into various languages including English. If you have ever dealt with translations from foreign languages, you will appreciate that they are approximate and not the real thing.
We don't have the Ten Commandments written by God's finger from Mount Sinai. Yet we know what the Ten Commandments are. The Nicene Council was formed in 325AD. They knew they had the infallible word of God otherwise they wouldn't have said so, isn't that correct? The Church can't be wrong, can it?
Who's we? If you look at a Protestant Bible, the 10 Commandments are written slightly differently from the Catholic one. The Church is not wrong and it is disingenuous to pick and choose the points where you consider the Church to be correct and to gainsay it on other points. What gives you the authority to do so? Are you being your own Pope in declaring doctrine?
And the Church was condemned by the church...
Wherever have you been? We need a bit of insanity in this discussion.
The mystery of the Gospel of the Grace of God was given to Paul to bring to the church...Jesus did not teach anyone the Gospel of the Grace of God...Paul did...
And just when I thought that the discussion was serious.
To Paul it was given to explain the workings of the church and it requirements and responsibilities...Jesus didn't do it; He had been resurrected...
What's the point of Jesus anyway, right?
It was given to Paul by Jesus to teach the church on this side of the Cross the new revelations of Jesus...The adoption of the Gentiles, the Gospel of the Grace of God, the Rapture, Faith without works, the Body of Christ, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer, the Judgment Seat of Christ, etc...
I see. So we should pray in the name of Paul, not Jesus, right?
None of these things were revealed by Jesus while He was on the earth...These things are all on this side of the Cross...Your religion is stuck on the other side of the Cross...
Yeah, we're kinda funny that way - we believe in Christ.
You all will be judged by your works...We have been judged already; and found to be just...Jesus made the complete payment for us, in full...
Just make sure that it's not in Weimar Republic marks.
It's almost funny but actually really sad to see people who are stuck on the wrong side of the Cross try to explain the scriptures to those of us on this side of the Cross...
From your explanations, I'd expect that you guys are on the right side of the bar with a very active bartender.
Not according to the Catholic church. From Catholic answers.com.... http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0510fr.asp
What are you talking about? The Word of God is Jesus. He is infallible. You guys are crazy to think that Catholics think that Jesus is fallible. We don't.
The interpretation of the word of God is infallible. That is the Catholic belief.
And a wrong one at that.
We wrote it, we harmonized it, we chose it and we interpret it. You gave all that up when you walked away from it.
Nor do Catholics have the original. They didn't write the Septuagint either. The Catholic Bible is a translation of a translation.
The Catholic Bible is in Greek with a translation into Latin and into Church Slavonic. There is no Catholic that claims differently.
So the very criticism you level against the *Protestant* Bible applies at least equally to your own. On one hand, you appeal to the fact that Protestants do not have the original manuscripts in your argument against Protestants use of Scripture. OTOH, Catholics appeal to that very same Scripture, which is no more certain, to support their most cherished doctrines.
We wrote it, we harmonized it, we chose it and we interpret it. Anything else is the province of fallible men, of whom you seem so enamoured that you walked away from the Church of Jesus Christ. It's hypocritical to demand to have it both ways. It's disingenuous to try to use Scripture from sources you demean and expect others to accept them as authoritative after trashing the sources.
I demean nothing. Individuals interpreting Scripture are invalid, according to Scripture.
Therefore, all the doctrines that the Catholic church appeals to Scripture for authority of, like the papacy, and apostolic succession, the institution of the priesthood, their ability to forgive sins, etc, are all built on unreliable documents (by your argument) and therefore are no more certain that that.
Without the Holy Spirit and the Magisterium, individuals interpreting Scripture are as the Eunuch; looking at words and understanding nothing. It is only by (rather poorly) imitating the Church that the Protestants actually have anything coherent at all. Look at the Pentecostals or the Branch Davidians as examples of individuals interpreting Scripture.
Very good. I ask you for your understanding of Paulician versus Pauline and you show me this. Next?
That is exactly what you asked.
Who r what decided to interpret the teachings of Jesus to come up with Catholic theology? I want YOUR answer.
The Church beginning with the Apostles. I have no idea who started your church or when, but they do not have the authority to interpret Scripture any more than the eunuch did.
That does not ensure that they will follow.
May God have mercy on us all. Yet most of us do not have our own created pocket God that is identical to the image we see in the mirror; that is reserved for those who would create God in their own image and would give them (the elite) salvation and deny it to everyone else. The high school student council mentality.
Very true, and yet their lap dogs insist that it is Catholics who demand control.
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