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To: count-your-change; Cronos; caww
Please excuse the long post, but I would like repeat here four points for the discussion which are supported by a great deal of Scripture.

1. There is only one altar on earth where blood sacrifices to God can be made.

But unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, [even] unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come: And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: And there ye shall eat before the LORD your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein the LORD thy God hath blessed thee. - Deut 12:5-7

Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD: - Deut 12:11

And that place is the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem:

And it came to pass, when Solomon had finished the building of the house of the LORD, and the king's house, and all Solomon's desire which he was pleased to do, That the LORD appeared to Solomon the second time, as he had appeared unto him at Gibeon. And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. - I Kings 9:1-3

As prophesied, all the other altars were destroyed by Josiah, see II Kings 23 (a sample verse included below)

And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense. And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee. – I Kings 13:1-3

And the altars that [were] on the top of the upper chamber of Ahaz, which the kings of Judah had made, and the altars which Manasseh had made in the two courts of the house of the LORD, did the king beat down, and brake [them] down from thence, and cast the dust of them into the brook Kidron. – II Kings 23:12

2. Christ sacrificed His own blood not on the earthly altar in the Temple at Jerusalem but rather on the heavenly altar; spiritual not physical.

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us]. – Hebrews 9:11-12

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel. - Hebrews 12:22-24

Again, the Christian’s altar is spiritual not physical (i.e. the Jewish Temple) - and our continual sacrifice is praising God, doing good and communicating (emphasis mine:).

Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For [it is] a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name. But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. – Hebrews 13:9-16

3. Christ is not just a priest. He is High Priest by authority of God the Father after the order of Melchizedek.

So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another [place], Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. – Hebrews 5:5-11

The New Testament sealed by the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ did away with the need for the Levitical priesthood which is to say the mortal priesthood of the Law.

As a man, Christ’s lineage was Judah, not Aaron. More importantly, Christ is God. He is divine.

Melchizedek was not a mortal priest either and his priesthood preceded the Levitical priesthood.

The priesthood of Christ is unchangeable and endless.

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

And inasmuch as not without an oath [he was made priest]: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. – Hebrews 7:11-28

And again, Melchizedek is not a mortal priest:

The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. – Psalms 110:4

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he [was] the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed [be] Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. – Genesis 14:18

Melchizedek brought forth bread and wine which corresponds to the Lord’s Supper.

4. The sacrifice - the Blood of the Lamb - is not like physical blood – it never runs out, never fades, never weakens, never fails.

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? – Hebrews 9:14

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. – I John 1:15

And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, - Revelation 1:5

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. – Revelation 7:14

Again, the bread and the wine we observe is not just physical (whether one sees it as transubstantiated like the burning bush – or symbolic, whether by Lord's Supper or Shabbat) – it is spiritual. And the body of Christ we are to discern is not just the bread and wine but the actual spiritual body of Christ.

From Corinthians in context (emphasis mine):

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. – 1 Cor 10:1-4

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we [being] many are one bread, [and] one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. – I Cor 10:16-17

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. – I Cor 11:23-26

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. - I Cor 11:28-32

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. - I Cor 12:12-14

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. – I Cor 12:27

And again,

[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; - Ephesians 4:4

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. – Ephesians 5:30

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. – Colossians 1:18

For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. – Romans 12:4-5

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. [We are] troubled on every side, yet not distressed; [we are] perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. – 2 Cor 4:7-11

And again,

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? - I Corinthians 6:19

In sum, we Christians look to the spiritual, to the heavenly not only to the physical “types” which point to them whether the earthly Jerusalem, Jewish Temple and Altar, blood sacrifices offered by Levitical priests, etc.

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, - Revelation 21:10

The LORD [is] in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne [is] in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. - Psalms 11:4

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. - Revelation 11:19

To God be the glory, not man, never man.


934 posted on 01/27/2011 10:07:12 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Your long post is no problem at all and thanks.

In deed, no human priest can claim to offer Christ on any altar that altar being heavenly.


941 posted on 01/27/2011 10:55:06 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Alamo-Girl

That was great.

Thank you.


945 posted on 01/27/2011 11:01:17 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Alamo-Girl
AMEN, Alamo-Girl! Once again you respond with the word of God and display its sustaining truth.

"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." -- Jude 1:24-25


946 posted on 01/27/2011 11:10:37 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Dear Precious Angel-Gal,

Your post, insights and all those beautiful Scriptures caused me to tear up.

BLESSED BE THE WORD OF THE LORD!
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD!
BLESSED BE THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB!
BLESSED BE THE WAYS OF THE LORD! !!!!HALLELUJAH!!!!
!!!!HALLELUJAH!!!!
!!!!HALLELUJAH!!!!

!!!!MARANATHA!!!!

949 posted on 01/27/2011 11:24:36 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...
And, I think you have given me another insight today . . .

From my vantage point,

It tends to chronically appear that humans have an inherent compulsion to make talismen out of all manner of objects, rituals, symbols etc. How to talk about this may be tricky, but as usual, I'm brazen enough to try. I think this is true of all humans, all Christians. Nevertheless, the Vatican AIWSOTARM system has evolved such compulsions to a hideous black art form.

A slight caveat. I'm not trying to say that God's power is never invested, anointed over, saturating objects. The bones of the prophet could be a case in point to the contrary. Paul's handkerchief/cloths, another.

Nevertheless, God saw to it that even the Ark of the Covenant, for the present, is unavailable. That supreme object-location of YAWEH'S DIVINE MANIFEST PRESENCE is not currently available.

And, RC VAIWSOTARM sensibilities aside, Mary is a poor ark.

And, it's been said that if all the splinters of The Cross were collected, there'd be enough wood to build a new Noah's Ark.

We are a mortal people grounded in tangible reality focused on OBJECTS all our waking hours and resting on objects when we are asleep. We are inescapably OBJECT ORIENTED.

Initially, God wanted a more or less face to face sort of dialogue with each Israeli at the TENT OF MEETING. They would have none of it and demanded that Moses do the professional RELIGIOUS duties for them. Chickens. Wimps. Humans.

I think that's why Moses' body was taken by God. He wanted no one bowing down to Moses corpse. Or worse, their tearing it apart for bits of Moses' bones--talismen to be carried around their necks on gold chains.

We love talismen because WE CONTROL THEM--we carry them, fondle them, caress them, kiss them, loft them, adore them, venerate them, worship them [DUMB! DOH!], MANIPULATE THEM--pretend we manipulate God with them.

YAWEH was not in the thunder . . . nor in the lightening . . . nor in the wind . . . but in HIS STILL SMALL VOICE.

He IS a jealous God. It is OFFENSIVE TO HIM for us to focus on ANY SUBSTITUTE.

HE WANTS DIALOGUE, A DANCE, PERSONAL INTIMACY INDIVIDUAL TO HIM. HE WANTS IT AT THE COST OF HIS OWN ONLY SON. WHAT BIGGER STATEMENT CAN HE MAKE ABOUT THAT???

Yet in our arrogant insecure prissyness, humans are so compulsively prone to acquiring, taking on, making talismen as substitutes. We feel comforted that we can HANDLE, DO, MANIPULATE some purported 'God thing' and pretend that we can even manipulate God with the THING.

God is merciful and when hearts are right, and earnestly toward and for Him, He MAY ignore some minor degrees of such around the edges.

ON THE WHOLE, IT'S AN OFFENSIVE STENCH.

And to end up doing it with the elements of communion has to be a serious travesty of major proportions.

HE WANTS ONGOING DAILY DIALOGUE INDIVIDUAL PERSON TO HIM. NOTHING between. Certainly no tangible OBJECTS between.

HEART TO HEART IS HIS PREFERENCE AND HIS REQUIREMENT.

Humans are foolish to pretend anything else is good, much less wonderful.

All this business about "aids to worship" is likewise nonsense. The Pagans say the same thing. God will have none of it. Weasel worded rationalizations have never impressed God.

And, Proddys can be ALMOST as awash in such stuff as RC's with particular denomninational symbols, forms, rituals, customs and the like. Thankfully, most of us don't fixate on crackers and juice as our bits of Christ to play mental games with.

May God show each individual with a heart truly after HIM--what HIS priorities are for in each of our lives and particularly for our DANCE WITH HIM.

956 posted on 01/27/2011 12:23:39 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Alamo-Girl

oh Dear sister-in-Christ....how my heart and mind is blessed from His word your post presented. Truth always sets well within us and reminds us once again that Gods word clairifies all which we need to know... and we can trust it as the authority by which we can try and test mans words. Thank you....and thank you for the time you gave to present this...which itself is a true sacrifice for any of us in the busy life.


1,067 posted on 01/27/2011 8:23:34 PM PST by caww
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To: Alamo-Girl; count-your-change; caww
There is only one altar on earth where blood sacrifices to God can be made --> yes, ON EARTH. There is no blood sacrifice ON EARTH in the mass.

Christ sacrificed His own blood not on the earthly altar in the Temple at Jerusalem but rather on the heavenly altar; spiritual not physical. --> yes, HEAVENLY altar -- as I said, The Mass is a participation in this one heavenly offering.

Christ is not just a priest. He is High Priest by authority of God the Father after the order of Melchizedek. --> yes, as I said, Jesus is eternally a priest, and a priest’s very nature is to offer sacrifice.

In the case of Christ, the eternal sacrifice that he offers is himself. This is why he appears in the book of Revelation as a lamb, standing as though he had been slain (Revelations 5:6).

The sacrifice - the Blood of the Lamb - is not like physical blood – it never runs out, never fades, never weakens, never fails. --> true, that is why the participation in that ONE sacrifice can happen in our timeline whenever and wherever, the sacrifice, the Blood of the Lamb is not like physical blood, it never runs out, never fades, never weakens, never fails

For all eternity i.e. outside time He, who is out of time is appealing to the work of the cross, interceding for us (Rom 8:34), and bringing the graces of Calvary to us.

To God be the glory, not man, never man.
1,105 posted on 01/27/2011 10:11:31 PM PST by Cronos
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