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The Church Fathers-Mary: Without Sin
The Church Fathers ^ | 70AD-584AD

Posted on 04/14/2011 9:21:51 AM PDT by marshmallow

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To: metmom
Can you please provide some scriptural justification for ‘sola scripture’?
301 posted on 04/15/2011 11:43:24 AM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Perhaps you were thinking of Soliton.

Those were the days......


302 posted on 04/15/2011 11:43:30 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
"most of the knowledgeable scientists and engineers are gone"

"Whoo Hoo FR!!! Way to go!"

Yes, it would seem quite appropriate for a protestant to be cheering that. Protestantism thrives on superstition.

303 posted on 04/15/2011 11:46:27 AM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: RnMomof7
I hope to never again say something I know to be false - it truly is an abomination to God.


304 posted on 04/15/2011 12:06:17 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: LeGrande; metmom
"Praise God!"
305 posted on 04/15/2011 12:08:26 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: metmom
It could have been, I'm drawing a blank now.
306 posted on 04/15/2011 12:09:16 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: metmom
Conservatism wins hands down again.

Born Againers are Conservative? Submission is not Conservatism.

307 posted on 04/15/2011 12:26:12 PM PDT by LeGrande (I believe in liberty; but I do not believe in liberty enough to want to force it upon anyone.)
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To: LeGrande; metmom
Oh, thats just their latest talking point; protestantism = conservatism and Catholicism = liberalism. Some of 'em have actually started accusing individual FReepers of being leftists.

It is a completely foolish and baseless bit of propaganda. I can't imagine why they've decided to propagate it.

308 posted on 04/15/2011 12:41:06 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: paladin1_dcs
Thanks very much for your courteous reply.

We agree on much, primarily that Christianity is not solely personal. It involves the community of the Church also as regards proper doctrine and use and interpretation of scripture.

with guidance from his local body of believers, also known as the Church.

Don't we have the same problem here with differing interpretations, on the local level? Do I go to the local Catholic Church or the local Calvinist Church? Are we not back to every individual tasked to work out what is the true Christian faith? On the practical level, this is what we have, and the Body of Christ is, again, hopelessly divided, can never be One as our Saviour prayed and therefore, I believe, instituted His Church.

I believe that this apostolic authority remains with the original Apostles' writings in dealing with our issues.

This is no solution, we are back to arguing differing interpretations of their writings.

What I disagree with is the idea that the authority of the Apostles over the first Churches was passed down to others after the Apostles deaths.

This is the scriptural and historical fact however. From the Council of Jerusalem to the Councils which settled the canon to those which argued and determined the Holy Trinity and Christ's Human and Divine nature.

Did Arian and Nestor have equal authority to the apostolic bishops in council? They argued from scripture as well. If the Apostolic Church did not have authority passed down, why isn't the Catholic Faith Arianism or Nestorian in doctrine. (Note that in some non-Catholic Christians we still find these heresies.)

So at which point does the Church's authority become illegitimate? Wherever you pick, why not sooner - or later.

As I can find no evidence within their writings to support the passing down of their authority, I reject the Roman Catholic view of their Apostolic authority.

And this is, again, according to your interpretation. Personally, I cannot read scripture without seeing the Church, with authority, throughout. Paul argues his authority many times. He argues scripture, but his authority is the difference, why he can correct others and not vice-versa.

We see this apostolic authority in scripture and where scripture stops, we see it continue in history of the Church Fathers. We would have to believe they made a grievous scriptural error from the beginning of the Church in order for your view to be correct.

Thanks again; I appreciate the opportunity to discuss with passion but also with respect.

309 posted on 04/15/2011 12:41:53 PM PDT by D-fendr
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To: metmom
Where do people get this drivel? Not from Scripture, that's for sure.

The vatican library is full of this stuff. Most Priests ad bishops and various "other" catholic writers throughout the years add their own take on Mary as well. Not unusual at all to see volumes of writers to scroll by on these threads. I have noted the authosrs mention MAry and others with little reference to scripture. It's as though they design what the standard needs to be and then locate scripture to twist and apply according to that belief.

310 posted on 04/15/2011 1:26:42 PM PDT by caww
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To: Celtic Cross

That doesn’t answer the question. Which is it? Are we wrong for believing Scripture alone, or are we following teachings that don’t have Scripture to back them up?

That was the accusation.


311 posted on 04/15/2011 1:35:20 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Celtic Cross

I’ve heard that before out of the mouths of evolutionists and atheists.

It’s too bad that people who claim to believe in God think the Bible is superstition.


312 posted on 04/15/2011 1:37:18 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom
You are mistaken. I was not referring to the bible as superstition.

There are many extra-biblical protestant beliefs, even from those who claim to be sola scriptura followers.

It was those beliefs to which I was referring.

313 posted on 04/15/2011 1:40:28 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: metmom
"That doesn’t answer the question. Which is it? Are we wrong for believing Scripture alone, or are we following teachings that don’t have Scripture to back them up? That was the accusation."

I'm not sure which question you are referring to. Sola scriptura is a flawed belief. Those who believe sola scriptura, e.i., nothing except whats in the bible, fail from the beginning because sola scriptura is not in the bible. You can't have an extra-biblical that anything extra-biblical is evil.

And I'm accusing you of nothing. I have no idea where you pulled that from.

314 posted on 04/15/2011 1:45:33 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Celtic Cross; metmom
And these extra-biblical beliefs dear to protestants are nothing like those in Catholicism. All Catholic beliefs are biblically justifiable, including the condemnation of sola scriptura.

There is no biblical justification, however, for things like, for example, snake-charming.

315 posted on 04/15/2011 1:50:24 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Celtic Cross; metmom

I asked Metmom which was more important to her, the Constitution or the Bible.

After a few attempts, she grudgingly admitted the Christian teachings or something like that were more important.


316 posted on 04/15/2011 2:04:01 PM PDT by LeGrande (I believe in liberty; but I do not believe in liberty enough to want to force it upon anyone.)
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To: Alamo-Girl

agreed


317 posted on 04/15/2011 2:05:02 PM PDT by RnMomof7 ( "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you,)
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To: LeGrande; metmom
I asked Metmom which was more important to her, the Constitution or the Bible

There is no that scripture is more important than the constitution ...I doubt metmom had to consider that question... so now one for you which is more importaant to you the constitution or the pope?

318 posted on 04/15/2011 2:09:39 PM PDT by RnMomof7 ( "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you,)
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To: marshmallow

One question on this thread..were the chuch fathers infallible?


319 posted on 04/15/2011 2:10:46 PM PDT by RnMomof7 ( "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you,)
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To: RnMomof7

Catholic Church teachings.


320 posted on 04/15/2011 2:16:24 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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