Posted on 05/16/2011 10:48:24 AM PDT by bronxville
VATICAN ABUSE NORMS RELEASED
Catholic League president Bill Donohue comments on the Vatican's guidelines on sex abuse and the early reaction to it:
The three most noteworthy features of the Vatican's new guidelines are (a) its commitment to the due process rights of priests (b) its insistence on cooperation with civil authorities and (c) its restatement of episcopal authority in these matters.
It was reassuring to learn that the Vatican says, "The accused cleric is presumed innocent until the contrary is proven." Significantly, the guidelines say that "the prescriptions of civil law regarding the reporting of such crimes to the designated authority should always be followed." It also puts the ultimate authority in these matters squarely in the hands of the bishops or major superiors.
The guidelines are respectful of episcopal autonomy and do not attempt a universal template. This is important because cooperation with the civil authorities in some nations is tantamount to suicide: hostile environments for Catholics exist, and any cooperation with the authorities in these nations is bound to come at the expense of justice. With regard to authority in these matters, the Vatican understands the role that diocesan review boards play, but it also recognizes that they are not a substitute for the authority lodged in the bishop.
The news story by the Associated Press speaks of priests who "rape and molest children," referring to them as "pedophile priests." It is factually wrong: few were raped, most were not children, and pedophilia is not the problem. In fact, the data show that "inappropriate touching" has been the most common form of abuse, and that most of the victims were postpubescent males, meaning that homosexuality was at work.
Finally, I was disappointed to read that John Allen of the National Catholic Reporter, who cited criticism of the guidelines by SNAP, did not inform his readers that those comments were made yesterday, before the Vatican's statement was released.
“In fact, the data show that “inappropriate touching” has been the most common form of abuse...”
Oh, it was just a little bit of “inappropriate touching?”
That makes it all better.
[Faithful Departed author Philip] Lawler points out that while less than five percent of American priests have been accused of sexual abuse, some two-thirds of our bishops were apparently complicit in cover-ups. The real scandal isn't the sick excesses of a few dozen pedophiles, or even the hundreds of priests who had affairs with teenage boys -- the bulk of abuse cases. No, according to Lawler, it is the malfeasance of wealthy, powerful, and evidently worldly men who fill the thrones -- but not the shoes -- of the apostles. In case after case, we read in their correspondence, in the records of their soulless, bureaucratic responses to victims of psychic torture and spiritual betrayal, these bishops' prime concern was to save the infrastructure, the bricks and mortar and mortgages. Ironically, their lack of a supernatural concern for souls is precisely what cost them so much money in the end.
-- from the thread Kneeling Before the World"The Dublin Archdiocese's preoccupations in dealing with cases of child sexual abuse, at least until the mid-1990s, were the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the church and the preservation of its assets," said the report. "All other considerations, including the welfare of children and justice for victims, were subordinated to these priorities. The archdiocese did not implement its own canon law rules and did its best to avoid any application of the law of the state"....
-- from the thread Pope calls Irish church leaders to Vatican to discuss abuse report
This idea that there is any kind of episcopal authority in these matters is unbelievable crap. There is no reason any civil society should allow any religious organization to deal with criminal offenses. Basically, the Catholics are claiming they get to have their own sharia-type law. Sharia law is not acceptable and ecclesiastical courts are not acceptable either. The Bishops and the church should have nothing to do with these cases other than turning the molesting priests over to the cops. They are the employer of these priests, nothing more. If I rape a kid, my employer doesn’t get to intervene and help me out. Turn the degenerate priests over to the cops, put them on trial, lock them up and throw away the key. The more the Pope and the Bishops claim they have authority to intervene in these matters, the more clear it becomes they are involved in the problem.
No one said that nor did anyone try to make excuses...a most recent thread here on the same topic might help...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2719752/posts
Yes, it was bad, but the problem was homosexual predators in the Priesthood, NOT pedophiles in the Priesthood.
We should all try to be accurate.
I don’t know where you got all that from...this might help...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2720574/posts
“No one said that.”
Are you saying that no one said, “In fact, the data show that “inappropriate touching” has been the most common form of abuse...?”
See #5 link. It appears they want accuracy except when it comes to the CC.
“This idea that there is any kind of episcopal authority in these matters is unbelievable crap. There is no reason any civil society should allow any religious organization to deal with criminal offenses. Basically, the Catholics are claiming they get to have their own sharia-type law.”
It seems they want some type of “diplomatic immunity.”
If that indeed is the case, all priests in the US should lose their US citizenship and be subject to expulsion from the US when they are accused of a crime.
Did you forget this -> “That it makes it all better”
You have the “information” now please provide the link. Thanks.
No, I think you're not understanding something.
The civil authorities have absolutely no, nada, zero right to determine whether someone is a priest in good standing, or any other standing, within the church.
The same thing is true of, e.g., Baptist pastors. The state does not get to decide who is, and isn't, a minister of religion. Ever. If they did, they immediately have the right to censor and control religion. Talk to anyone familiar with the history of the Russian Orthodox church if you don't understand this.
They have every right to determine whether someone has committed a crime against the civil and should therefore be locked up (fined, put on probation, etc.) This is as true of priests as it is of anyone else.
Hence the need for "episcopal authority" and two sets of court systems. They are complementary. The state cannot remove a man from the priesthood. The bishop cannot put him in jail.
See links @ #5 & 7
Nope. See my preceding post.
And nobody can lose their U.S. citizenship merely by being accused of a crime. Honestly, I sometimes wonder if this is a website where people actually respect the Constitution. Maybe it's more "slave republic" than "free republic".
No and I am disgusted that Bill Donohue would minimize inappropriate touching of a child.
Are you saying that the Catholic Church is correct when it refuses to report accusations of sexual abuse to the legal authorities and instead handles the accusations internally?
This idea that there is any kind of episcopal authority in these matters is unbelievable crap. There is no reason any civil society should allow any religious organization to deal with criminal offenses.
Actually, you are off in your understanding. There is no episcopal authority in reporting crimes, and that is the problem with all of these articles and threads. It is all a myth created to a purpose.
Let me ask you this. If you put your kid in a Sunday school and he came home and told you that somebody there molested him, would you wait for the Sunday school to report it? Would you go to the pastor of your church and ask permission to call the police after your child was molested? Could your church or Sunday school ever have a policy that would change how you would react to that situation? Hardly, and neither does the Catholic Church. Catholics are free, and always have been free, to report any crime to which they are a victim to the police. There is nothing the Church can or has done to change that.
Basically, the Catholics are claiming they get to have their own sharia-type law. Sharia law is not acceptable and ecclesiastical courts are not acceptable either.
There are no ecclesiastical courts regarding criminal charges. All ecclesiastical courts are to determine how to handle potential offenders only in terms of their life within the Church. For instance, should a bishop or a priest be removed from this or that position, or should he be suspended, and so on. There is no claim within the Church that such courts should be used instead of criminal courts, as your sharia comparison suggests. It just isn't so. If you or your child is a victim of a crime, report it to the police. It is not the job of anyone at a church to report a crime against you to the police. It is your job to do that. But, at the same time, if the accused is a cleric the Church will probably carry out a trial of its own to determine what should be done as regards this person's ministry. Doing so hardly suggests that the criminal trial should not have happened.
Consider this example. You have a job and are accused of a crime. After your trial you are found guilty. Your employers have a board meeting and determine that they will fire you as well. Is that sharia law? I hardly think so.
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