Posted on 05/16/2011 10:48:24 AM PDT by bronxville
Since you are clueless, I will help you.
When you use a pdf file there are two page number systems.
One is the actual page number embedded in the document and the other is the pdf file page number.
I gave you both.
The reason many of these people turned directly to the church first and not the police is that they were raised to believe in and trust the church and its authorities. The church and their families had been telling them since birth that the church was the good guy, the world was evil.
I'm sorry, but I find this hard to believe. I am a Catholic and it has never been suggested to me in my lifetime that the Church should be consulted before calling the cops if I or my child is the victim of a crime. Neither has it ever been suggested to me that the cops aren't the good guys, and actually all through my childhood everybody did everything possible to create the opposite image. And, regardless of any of that, it is still your responsibility as a parent to report crimes against your children, and it is ridiculous on the part of anyone to suggest that not the parent, but the employer of the accused child molester has the responsibility of doing so. It is beyond laughable.
I care nothing for the danger child-raping-priests may be put into if the church cooperates with civil authorities. The worst thing that could happen to them is exactly what they deserve: death.
So, you have no problem if a priest in a muslim country is accused by muslims so that there will be grounds against him. You don't care that he cannot get a trial there. You don't care that he is innocent. Just by being a Catholic priest in a muslim country he gets what he deserves, death? Do all Catholic priests then deserve death in your eyes?
I’ve been involved with Scouting as a leader for four years, and in response to some very unfortunate incidents, we have a very clear system of youth protection that involves mandatory reporting where state law is clear, which it is in most cases, and clear understanding that if you as the individual leader or parent have a good faith belief that abuse has occurred - you are to report it. Adult leaders who abuse children are expelled, no exceptions.
It goes beyond that though. It’s really a system to prevent abuse from happening by getting to know the signs of abuse, preventing opportunities and more.
In my years with the Scouts, I’ve never seen or heard the deflection of blame, parsing, minimization, and attempts to defend men who are guilty of abuse remaining in leadership positions as I have on this forum.
You’ll probably pick a solitary point in my response, focus on it, and claim the victory. I hope I’m wrong though.
By doing the best to protect children, you will be doing the best to protect the Church - expel the abusers.
““Everything there is in the .pdf file. I can’t do the reading for you.
For example the stats on what type of abuse occurred page 33 of the 158 page pdf.””
This is where you directed us in post #29. Your lack of respect for time limitations notwithstanding, please save us all time and post where you got the statistics you outlined perfectly in post #8. They are NOT in the pdf.
I wrote in reponse to your post #35 -> “Ephebophilia is where most of the homosexual-pedophilia abuse derived in the Catholic, mainline Protestants, and other denominations come from and which CONTINUES to happen in the decentralized denominations.”
Where is the Outrage? (protestant pedophiles)
So many Baptist clergy could not possibly get away with so much abuse unless many others were complicit in turning a blind eye. Why do Baptist leaders tolerate the presence of ministerial colleagues who sexually abuse the young and vulnerable? Why do people in the pews not rise up and demand that their leaders be held accountable? Where’s the outrage?
Why don’t people at Bellevue Baptist in Memphis demand the resignation of Pastor Steve Gaines, who admittedly kept quiet about a staff minister’s sexual abuse of a kid?
Why don’t people at Trinity Baptist demand the resignation of Pastor Tom Messer, about whom there is significant evidence that he knew of a minister’s serial sexual abuse of kids?
Why do so many people act as though clergy-abuse cover-ups are no big deal?
In my own case, the church finally made a written apology, but only after first threatening me and then seeking a secrecy agreement and finally being forced into an apology by a lawsuit. An apology extracted in a lawsuit (and handed off by their attorney) doesn’t carry the feeling of any genuine remorse, but it does constitute an acknowledgement of the truth. Their ministerial staff knew all along that this man had molested me as a kid. Yet, they tried every means possible to avoid owning up to that truth. And they didn’t bother to warn people in the pews of other congegations - people whose kids were at risk.
The apology was arrived at only after hours of hammering out the language in a court-ordered mediation session. “Churches should respond with righteous outrage and anger at such crimes against kids committed by church leaders they trust,” says the church. Well gee....doesn’t that sound nice? But where is that outrage?
Even now, has anything changed? Have any of those who covered up and kept quiet about the abuse been held accountable?
contin...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2709296/posts
Perhaps if you spent more time on CURRENT abuses from other denominations we’d all be better off since the CC and other mainline Protestant Churches have already cleaned house.
Page 26 of the report and page 32 of the pdf file.
The Church implemented an excellent program over a decade ago, a program so successful that many other Institutions are using it. The abuses they continue to bring up are old cases - they do the same to the boy scouts. The abuse peaked in the mid-sixties to mid-eighties in most institutions, when there was an infiltration of homosexuals, which also happened in the majority of other institutions where there was easy access to our youth. The Schools have yet to be investigated, they’re currently at around 10 per cent and it’s where I believe most of them are now going.
From the article:- “The news story by the Associated Press speaks of priests who “rape and molest children,” referring to them as “pedophile priests.” It is factually wrong: few were raped, most were not children, and pedophilia is not the problem.”
You wrote:- “Wow, that is an absolute lie and easily disprovable by the Church’s own reports. This just re-victimizes the children over again to say they were not ‘raped’ by priests. Is the Catholic League now saying that children can chose who they sleep with since its not considered ‘rape’ by them?”
Where did you write as if these ACCUSATIONS were actually real stats?
Why are you so determined not to post the link from #8?
Now, I’m sure you have stats from other denominations, right? Can you link us to them?
You owe me an apology.
“The abuses they continue to bring up are old cases”
Really?
1) Catholic Priest Arrested in Connection with Murder for Hire Plot
Nov 23, 2010
A Catholic priest is accused of hiring an undercover cop to kill a boy he’s accused of having sex with.
http://www.kwes.com/story/13559839/priest?redirected=true
2) Priest charged in sex assault of a woman on Sunday
Feb 16, 2011
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/116385639.html
3) Priest arrested for alleged sexual abuse of 12-year-old boy
October 26, 2010
4) Priest arrested in area sex case
September 4, 2010
A priest who worked in a rural parish west of San Antonio was arrested late Friday for aggravated sexual assault against a teen
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Priest-arrested-in-area-sex-case-645368.php
From the article:- “The news story by the Associated Press speaks of priests who “rape and molest children,” referring to them as “pedophile priests.” It is factually wrong: few were raped, most were not children, and pedophilia is not the problem.”
You wrote:- “Wow, that is an absolute lie and easily disprovable by the Church’s own reports. This just re-victimizes the children over again to say they were not ‘raped’ by priests. Is the Catholic League now saying that children can chose who they sleep with since its not considered ‘rape’ by them?”
Where did you write as if these ACCUSATIONS were actually real stats?
Why are you so determined not to post the link from #8?
Now, I’m sure you have stats from other denominations, right? Can you link us to them?
PS: Re: to your recent post - more accusations? Or were they proven guilty? And where did I say that there were NO outliers? And if you want to continue to play this game so be it.
Penn State professor Philip Jenkens reported that between 2 to 3 percent of Protestant clergy are pedophiles. His same study reported that less than 1.7 percent of Catholic priests are pedophiles. There is simply no reason to think that clergy child molesters are solely a Catholic problem. - *The results of this survey were reported in the book, Ministerial Ethics by Joe Trull and James Carter (2d ed. 2004), and in The Baptist Standard editorial, “Churches must act to prevent clergy sexual abuse,” 4/22/2002. - (source: The voice of SNAP Baptist - http://stopbaptistpredators.org/alarmingnumbers.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2709296/posts
Welcome to a collection of news reports on ministers who have sexually abused children:
ALL Protestant denominations - 838 Ministers
147 Baptist Ministers
251 “Bible” Church Ministers (fundamentalist/evangelical)
140 Anglican/Episcopalian Ministers
38 Lutheran Ministers
46 Methodist Ministers
19 Presbyterian Ministers
197 various Church Ministers
*** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is available here without profit to people who want to read it for research and educational purposes. If you quote from this, please check (if possible) and acknowledge the ORIGINAL source. *** This service is provided by volunteers for non-profit.
http://www.reformation.com/
Baptist Hide and Seek
[...]Remember: Most clergy child molesters have never been convicted of anything. Of all the Catholic priests who have been removed from ministry, only 3 percent were able to be criminally prosecuted and only 2 percent were ever jailed. If Catholics themselves had not taken action - finally - over 700 child molesting priests would still be working in ministry. The largest Protestant denomination needs to do something about this problem as well.[...]
http://stopbaptistpredators.org/BaptistHideSeek.html
The Southern Baptist Convention’s Unconvincing Claims as to Why It Cannot Effectively Report or Prevent Clergy Child Abuse – and How Insurance Companies Can Exert Pressure to Ensure Better Systems
By MARCI HAMILTON
Thursday, Jun. 12, 2008
The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has recently proven why it is that children are at risk for sexual abuse in our society: It’s easier not to protect them, and especially easy to issue ineffectual platitudes while looking the other way.
According to the Associated Press, the SBC has concluded that its decentralized structure of independent churches makes it impossible for it to establish a website of pastors credibly accused of child sexual abuse, or even to require the reporting of such crimes to the police. Yes, you read that right: The SBC is citing these lame procedural reasons for not taking the most basic steps to protect children from devastating abuse that can have repercussions that leave victims suffering for a lifetime (and that severely taxes society in medical and other resources).
In this column, I’ll rebut the Convention’s claims that policing and reporting abuse is an impossible task to put on its shoulders, and also describe how change in this quarter needs to come from what may seem like an unlikely source: the insurance industry....]
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20080612.html
Seattle minister charged with child rape
Updated May 10, 2011 - 7:59 am
“A police detective says Dampier had been investigated for similar crimes over the years but the cases were dropped because witnesses and victims would not cooperate.”
http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=478226
Alleged Pastor Rapist Still In San Bernardino
Joseph Jermaine Spencer was sitting in a jail cell in San Bernardino County today, on no bail, awaiting a June probation hearing in Fontana.
By Mirna Alfonso | Email the author | May 13, 2011
http://murrieta.patch.com/articles/alleged-pastor-rapist-still-in-san-bernardino
Former Davie pastor sentenced to three years prison for molesting two girls
Felipe Arroyo took a plea deal in the midst of jury selection
May 13, 2011|By Tonya Alanez, Sun Sentinel
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-05-13/news/fl-pastor-molestation-plea-deal-20110513_1_lascivious-molestation-jury-selection-prison-term
Colton pastor arrested in sexual assault
By Melissa Pinion-Whitt
Posted: 05/10/2011 02:06:27 PM PDT
Read more: http://www.sbsun.com/breakingnews/ci_18032937#ixzz1MYC2Bs4Y
I’m only posting a few.
“No and I am disgusted that Bill Donohue would minimize inappropriate touching of a child.”
He was telling the truth. Prove otherwise. Thanks.
As Pilate asked Jesus, “What is truth?”
http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Agencies/police/community/abuse.html
Facts About Child Abuse
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