Posted on 05/16/2011 10:48:24 AM PDT by bronxville
ping to #78 - sorry I forgot to include you.
“I hate pedophile defenders.”
“It is interesting that your posts defend priests yet not one single word to defend Catholic children.”
Some might call these statements hypocritical to say the very least!
"Our Bishops? for the last year or so you have been posting like a seminar caller to a conservative talk radio program saying the equivalent of "I'm a conservative Republican, but that Reagan was a Nazi.
You portray yourself as a Catholic and then slam the Church, one time even prefacing your remark with "as a former alter boy" when.an actual Catholic and former alta boy would see how ridiculous that is.
“Victims’ ages: 5.8% under 7; 16% ages 8-10; 50.9% ages 11-14; 27.3% ages 15-17.”
Looks like about 3/4 of those are what any non-biased, thinking person would call “children.”
Not suprising that some one who defends child rapists now tries to claim that those opposed to it are not true Catholics. I have the completed all my sacraments and attend Church weekly and my children all have gone to CCD. A true Catholic does not tolerate abuses to within the Church.
I will pray for you.
however, I do not see this affecting my beliefs or the dogma or doctrines of The Church.
I note also that this is not something embedded in the clergy, despite what our media wants us to believe
Even in the worst dioceses only 2-3% of priests were accused (in the lib hell-holes of Philly and Chicago). Let's assume all were guilty, that still means only 3% of priest.
Do not condemn the rest of the priests for the actions of the few.
This is not endemic -- note the many good priests and bishops, especially those being appointed now. They need our help. Note also that we are Catholics, we are not a personality driven MegaChurch that rises or falls based on a pastor -- our High Priest is Christ Himself.
If we have a sin filled priest (and hey, they are human after all), that matters not. If they are criminals boot them in prison, that doesn't affect our Church. If they can't preach, that matters not.
Because we look beyond this human vessel and focus on Christ in the Eucharist
During our Holy Prayer to God, what do we have?
oh, my friend in Christ, we are blessed to have experienced this -- and where does the minister figure in all of this? He is just a tool, a means. God uses splendid tools or weak ones, but they are just tools
What is at the centre of our Churches? Not like in others, the pulpit, glorifying the preacher, but in Our Church the center-piece is the altar with the Eucharist, the Bible and the Cross, remembering us of Our Risen Lord, His sacrifice and His Word
Arise, let us take back our Church Catholic.
Also, of course, toss them in prison after defrocking them as the criminals they are, but let's remember their eventual fate if they do not truly repent to God. They need some prayers too -- but the victims need help.
I have to say, LonelyCon...I think cothrige is absolutey correct here, and have said the same thing many times.
WHERE were the parents? WHY didn’t they go to the police (at least)? Oh, and WHY did they take the hush money that was paid to them? (We don’t hear much about the hush money anymore; when the scandals first broke, we did.)
And please...don’t say that “they were raised to respect priests more than cops.” That is simply untrue (I should know; I was born and raised in an extremely Catholic family — and I’m still Catholic). The fact is, had ANY of these things happened to my brother or me, Daddy would definitely not have gone to the bishop, and probably would not have gone to the police. He’d have taken care of Father Fancypants himself, and Father would have had lots more to worry about than what the bishop would say. Daddy would have done the same to a teacher, a cop, a garbage man, the guy down the street...ANYONE. He wouldn’t have give a rat’s patootie what the perp’s position was if he’d hurt one of us kids, and that’s how a parent SHOULD act.
Were we raised to trust priests (and cops)? Yeah, but we weren’t raised to be stupid, either. Give the respect just as long as it’s due, but if that trust and respect is violated...well, all bets were off. I can’t say I knew anyone who was raised any differently than that.
Regards,
Amen.
WaterBoard, I’m afraid you will need to go to some posters and personally read them report.
But it won’t do any good. Some prefer to defend their church by squeezing their eyes shut and pretending it hasn’t happened. It is hard to read when you eyes are shut.
“So many Baptist clergy could not possibly get away with so much abuse unless many others were complicit in turning a blind eye. Why do Baptist leaders tolerate the presence of ministerial colleagues who sexually abuse the young and vulnerable? Why do people in the pews not rise up and demand that their leaders be held accountable? Where’s the outrage?”
It doesn’t happen often in Baptist churches, and when it does, it is normally a police matter. You’ve cited roughly 150 cases of baptist - not ministers, just baptists - involved in sexual abuse. With 44,000 congregations in the SBC alone, and probably 80,000 total congregations in the US, and with most having more ‘workers’ than just the pastor, the sample size is equivalent to the 110,000 used in the bishop’s report.
And since no one among baptists has any authority to transfer anyone or to ‘defrock’ anyone, there can be no one turning a blind eye except a local pastor of a congregation.
The idea that a baptist somewhere abusing someone means the Catholic Church has no responsibility is immoral. The outrage wasn’t that a priest somewhere had done something evil, but that the hierarchy knew about it and didn’t take action to prevent it from repeating.
““Insurance companies receive from Protestant churches each year about 260 reports involving allegations of sexual abuse committed against minors. This is LESS than the annual number of 228 abuse incidents reported against Catholic priests. That reality is particularly noteworthy because Catholics keep track of even “credible accusation,” which Southern Baptists don’t even bother to determine or keep records on.”
There are roughly 300,000 Protestant congregations in America. There are roughly 22,000 Catholic congregations. (http://hirr.hartsem.edu/research/fastfacts/fast_facts.html)
260/300,000 = <1 in 1,000.
228/22,000 = 1 in 100.
Southern Baptists don’t even keep records of who is a pastor or ordained as a deacon. There simply is no hierarchy.
“however, I do not see this affecting my beliefs or the dogma or doctrines of The Church.”
The whole discussion has nothing to do with the truth of any doctrine, other than the doctrine that man is a sinner in need of God’s grace and redemption. And anyone who doesn’t hold to that doctrine is not a Christian.
Show me where I have ever defended a child rapist or even suggested that I condoned or excused the behavior. Bearing false witness is not an acceptable thing for a true Catholic to do.
"I have the completed all my sacraments and attend Church weekly and my children all have gone to CCD."
There are seven Sacraments and, at most, you would only have received five of them, but a true Catholic would have known that. A true Catholic doesn't attend "Church" they attend "Mass". CCD is a program that lasts through high school, your posting history doesn't suggest that you are old enough to have had all of your children complete (you used "gone to") CCD. A true Catholic would have known that.
If there were anything in your entire posting history in defense of the Church in the face of the lies most often told on RF I might believe you. If you were to suggest that the Church is the greatest instrument of good in the world I might believe you. If you were to speak out in support of any of the other social issues that the Church champions I might believe you. All roads might lead to Rome, but all lies lead away from it.
I will pray for you.
Would you like me to scan a copy of last Sunday’s Church bulletin or perhaps a summary of the Homily will suffice?
Most Catholics I know don’t question another’s faith, that ultimately would be the job of Christ on judgment day.
I do have our entire family’s sacrament certificates for baptism, communion, confirmation, marriage etc since you are so unbelieving.
So now y9u are telling us that you have received (you don't complete) the Sacraments of
Baptism
Confirmation
Eucharist
Reconciliation
Anointing of the Sick
Matrimony
Holy Orders
Gosh, you must be a very OLD (Anointing of the Sick)
Married (Matrimony)
Priest (Holy Orders)
Got that everyone -- ??He's a very old, married priest -- he says he received all the Sacraments. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!
**Southern Baptists don’t even keep records of who is a pastor or ordained as a deacon. There simply is no hierarchy.**
So are you saying that southern Baptists do not track and thus hide the pehdophiles within their ranks?
I'm not questioning your faith, just your credibility. If you were as devout a Catholic as you would have us believe there would surely be something in your posting history about the Church other than condemnation and criticisms. In all of your supposed involvement with your parish have you ever initiated or actively participated in any group or office tasked with oversight and protection of the children. Have you ever first hand become aware of any abuse and acted upon your knowledge or are you content to read the NYT and grumble anonymously on the internet about others not doing enough?
What about the issue of abortion? There are nearly 2 million abortions performed every year in this country, many within the boundaries of your parish. There are nearly 50 million abortions performed worldwide annually. Where is your righteous indignation over this or can you find nothing to criticize the Church over so you remain silent?
If you don't like the perception your posting history creates change it.
“So are you saying that southern Baptists do not track and thus hide the pehdophiles within their ranks?”
Southern Baptists don’t even track deacons! And since the SBC has ZERO authority over any congregation, the SBC cannot hide squat.
I don’t think you’re a Catholic either. Frankly, your posts sound like a “pretender.”
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