Posted on 05/31/2011 11:53:33 AM PDT by marshmallow
The quote from him was from his commentary on the Book of Matthew. The Church fathers all based their beliefs on the perpetual Virginity of Mary on the Bible. They were scholars and would discuss, debate and teach the faith and show how the Church’s teachings were supported by Scripture. If their discussion was on matters which were not yet official dogma they would lay out their arguments based on Scripture.
This was done not only regarding the Perpetual Virginity of Mary but such universally accepted doctrines which were once questioned such as the Divinity of Christ.
how did Jesus' brothers happen along?
You wrote:
“There is no evidence she vowed life long virginity.”
Yes, there is. What happened to Zachary did not happen to her even though they said similar things to Gabriel. Why?
The mormons teach she was one of their gods wives too..
So would you say the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary.. that is how a marriage is consummated
You wrote:
“Wrong. I’ve had 13 years of Catholic parochial and prep schools.”
Sorry, I don’t believe you - except if we conclude that anti-Catholicism really is a mental illness which effects the sufferer’s ability to think.
“Seriously, “Hilary of Poitiers” did NOT write anything in the Bible.”
No one said he was. I have read the whole thread. It seems pretty clear you were being directed to a source of not and not to a scriptural verse in itself. Did you stop to think that perhaps St. Hilary’s book contains verses from scriptural you might benefit from or that might better answer your question? Apparently not.
Who was Zachary?
You wrote:
“The mormons teach she was one of their gods wives too..”
Not “too” but singularly. No orthodox Christian - and Mormons are not Christian at all - believes the Virgin Mary had sex with anyone let alone a god.
“So would you say the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary.. that is how a marriage is consummated”
Not all marriages need be consummated - hence the term josephite marriage.
You wrote:
“Who was Zachary?”
Oh, right, you’re a Protestant and therefore your knowledge of scripture is seriously in doubt. Read Luke 1. Ask yourself why Zachary (Zachariah in some translations) was punished and the Virgin Mary was not.
This is an excellent article from an Ethiopian Orthodox site. “The Perpetual Virgnity of St. Mary.”
http://www.ninesaintsethiopianorthodoxmonastery.org/id26.html
“Sorry, I don’t believe you...”
Ummmm.
Do you want to call my mom and ask her???
....not that I would give you her number ....
Ohhh, I just found this:
posted a while ago on FR: the only mistake is it should have said 9 years Catholic grade school.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2327607/posts?page=13#13
“On my Catholic education:
8 years Catholic grade school
4 years Catholic high school
weekly CCD classes by quite conservative Novus Ordo RCC priest
parents subscribed to National Catholic Register, the Wanderer, Fidelity and The Remnant, and I read them while growing up
my parents fought the Novus Ordo modernism tooth and nail and are now in the SSPX - I would politiely challenge you to ask them if they considered me to be inadequately catechized
I subscribed to Fidelity and Remnant in undergrad college and never stopped contending against modernism in the Catholic Church
I believe that will end this little conversation. God bless.
You wrote:
“We KNOW that every word in the scripture true.. What is the measuring rod for non scriptural teaching ?”
First, answer:
Do you expect every truth to be in Scripture?
If you do, then please show me a scriptural verse for that.
.
From the article “The Virginity of St. Mary.”
“Why is St. Mary’s Ever-Virginity so Important
Some would say that even if it can be proved, St. Mary’s Perpetual Virginity is not essential to the proclamation of the Gospel, and this is true on a certain level. In its essence, the Orthodox Church proclaims the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is our message, our reason for being, the very life of our life. Teaching about St. Mary is really meant for the initiates, those who have already accepted the Gospel and have committed themselves to Jesus Christ and to service in His Holy Church.
This is so because what St. Mary teaches us about the Incarnation of the Word of God requires that we first accept the Incarnation. Once we do, then her virginity not only after giving birth, but also before-and indeed the character of her entire life-become in themselves a wellspring of teaching about life in Christ and the glory of God. Indeed, she said as much herself. By stating that “all generations shall call me blessed,” St. Mary was not vainly contemplating her own uniqueness, but proclaiming the wonder that her life was to manifest Almighty God’s glorious victory in His Christ for all time.
St. Mary was not an accident vessel of God, someone picked out of the crowed as it were, as some would have us think in our day. Rather her role in our salvation was prepared from the beginning of the ages. The entire history of Israel-the Patriarchs, the Psalms, the Prophets, the giving of the Commandments-converged in the young woman who would answer the way all Israel should always have answered, and as we all are expected to answer now: “Behold the handmaiden of the Lord.”
But her purpose in salvation history did not end there. She was not cast aside as an article that is no longer useful. Instead her whole being and life would continue to point us without distraction to her Son. At the wedding of Cana in Galilee we hear her words: “Whatever He says to you, do it” (St. John 2:5). At her Son’s crucifixion, she stands fast at the foot of the Cross, this time pointing not with words but by her refusal to leave His side even in the face of what seemed an impossible nightmare. As we undertake to imitate this faithfulness in pointing always to Almighty God, we will begin to see in the same measure that St. Mary’s Perpetual Virginity is in fact her ever-ministry, the ideal example for our own ministry.
It is important to recover the proper Veneration of St. Mary which the Apostolic Church has always held, not because St. Mary is the great exception but, as one Orthodox theologian has said, because she is the Great Example. This Veneration is beautifully expressed in an Orthodox hymn that poetically recounts the Archangel St. Gabriel’s first encounter with the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, who was about to become the Ark of the New Covenant, the throne of God, the flesh which gave flesh to the Word of God:”
And if he had sexual intercourse with her he dishonored the Holy Spirit.
Why? Their marriage was sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
I don’t think the most vehement of the posters here even consider that Mary was through the grace of God the one person most perfectly united with the Holy Trinity.
Daughter of the Father. Mother of the Son. and Spouse of the Holy Spirit. Not in any sexual context but in a relationship context.
You wrote:
“Ummmm. Do you want to call my mom and ask her???”
Post her number here and I’ll think about it. Also, do not PM me with it. Just post it in the thread for everyone to see. Also, what reason do I have to believe she will be honest?
“....not that I would give you her number ....”
Ah, I see. So much for honesty already, huh?
“Ohhh, I just found this: posted a while ago on FR: the only mistake is it should have said 9 years Catholic grade school.”
You failed a grade? I went to 8 years of Catholic grade school. There is no ninth year. Which grade did you fail?
“my parents fought the Novus Ordo modernism tooth and nail and are now in the SSPX - I would politiely challenge you to ask them if they considered me to be inadequately catechized”
Apparently you would not do so - since you won’t give out the number anyway - and I would have no reason to believe them anyway.
I don’t believe anti-Catholics. I have had them lie to my face and lie to me many times online. They’ve lied to me about their origins, beliefs, lives, marriages - one even lied about being a priest until he was exposed as a fraud by someone else. I simply have no reason to ever believe or trust anti-Catholics.
I agree with you.
Judging by the energy which many non-Catholics invest in trying to undermine the doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity, quite a lot apparently. It's not simply an attitude of....."I don't care if she was a perpetual virgin"...........rather, it's ........no, she was not a perpetual virgin". IOW, they appear to be as heavily invested in the idea that Mary's virginity was not perpetual, as the Church is invested in the teaching that it is perpetual.
BTW, "sex-life" is a terrible, modern trivializing term for the conjugal act.
Why does Mary's virginity matter for your salvation?
Because it highlights the uniqueness of the Incarnation of Jesus. The womb which bore Jesus, bore no other. It emphasizes the fullness of God's plan of salvation and Mary's place in it. This womb which bore God made man, remained forever a shrine to He who dwelt there for nine months. Inviolate and pure.
It is an important proof of His Godhead.
Jesus was not just one of a series of products of this womb. He was the only one.
I like to think of the protestant mindset on Scripture as autonomous individualism. Whatever I think the Bible says, that's what it says.
True, they may gather around a pastor who gives them instruction on what HE thinks the Bible says. There are thousands of denominational differences as a result, and untold differences of opinion by individual pastors. The believer claims the Holy Spirit teaches him personally to know what the truths of Scripture are, yet how can God lead so many people to form so many different conclusions?
Doctrinal chaos. I wonder who's really behind that?
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