Posted on 05/31/2011 11:53:33 AM PDT by marshmallow
The Protoevangelium of James
“And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by [St. Anne], saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there” (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).
“And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’” (ibid., 8–9).
“And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’” (ibid., 15).
“And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’” (ibid.).
Origen
“The Book [the Protoevangelium] of James [records] that the brethren of Jesus were sons of Joseph by a former wife, whom he married before Mary. Now those who say so wish to preserve the honor of Mary in virginity to the end, so that body of hers which was appointed to minister to the Word . . . might not know intercourse with a man after the Holy Spirit came into her and the power from on high overshadowed her. And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the firstfruit among men of the purity which consists in [perpetual] chastity, and Mary was among women. For it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the firstfruit of virginity” (Commentary on Matthew 2:17 [A.D. 248]).
Hilary of Poitiers
“If they [the brethren of the Lord] had been Mary’s sons and not those taken from Joseph’s former marriage, she would never have been given over in the moment of the passion [crucifixion] to the apostle John as his mother, the Lord saying to each, ‘Woman, behold your son,’ and to John, ‘Behold your mother’ [John 19:26–27), as he bequeathed filial love to a disciple as a consolation to the one desolate" (Commentary on Matthew 1:4 [A.D. 354]).
Athanasius
“Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature from the Father and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh from the ever-virgin Mary” (Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).
Epiphanius of Salamis
“We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things, both visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God . . . who for us men and for our salvation came down and took flesh, that is, was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit” (The Man Well-Anchored 120 [A.D. 374]).
“And to holy Mary, [the title] ‘Virgin’ is invariably added, for that holy woman remains undefiled” (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 78:6 [A.D. 375]).
Jerome
“[Helvidius] produces Tertullian as a witness [to his view] and quotes Victorinus, bishop of Petavium. Of Tertullian, I say no more than that he did not belong to the Church. But as regards Victorinus, I assert what has already been proven from the gospel—that he [Victorinus] spoke of the brethren of the Lord not as being sons of Mary but brethren in the sense I have explained, that is to say, brethren in point of kinship, not by nature. [By discussing such things we] are . . . following the tiny streams of opinion. Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against [the heretics] Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man” (Against Helvidius: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary 19 [A.D. 383]).
“We believe that God was born of a virgin, because we read it. We do not believe that Mary was married after she brought forth her Son, because we do not read it. . . . You [Helvidius] say that Mary did not remain a virgin. As for myself, I claim that Joseph himself was a virgin, through Mary, so that a virgin Son might be born of a virginal wedlock” (ibid., 21).
Didymus the Blind
“It helps us to understand the terms ‘first-born’ and ‘only-begotten’ when the Evangelist tells that Mary remained a virgin ‘until she brought forth her first-born son’ [Matt. 1:25]; for neither did Mary, who is to be honored and praised above all others, marry anyone else, nor did she ever become the Mother of anyone else, but even after childbirth she remained always and forever an immaculate virgin” (The Trinity 3:4 [A.D. 386]).
Ambrose of Milan
“Imitate her [Mary], holy mothers, who in her only dearly beloved Son set forth so great an example of material virtue; for neither have you sweeter children [than Jesus], nor did the Virgin seek the consolation of being able to bear another son” (Letters 63:111 [A.D. 388]).
Pope Siricius I
“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (Letter to Bishop Anysius [A.D. 392]).
Augustine
“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
Leporius
“We confess, therefore, that our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, born of the Father before the ages, and in times most recent, made man of the Holy Spirit and the ever-virgin Mary” (Document of Amendment 3 [A.D. 426]).
Cyril of Alexandria
“[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing” (Against Those Who Do Not Wish to Confess That the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God 4 [A.D. 430]).
Pope Leo I
“His [Christ’s] origin is different, but his [human] nature is the same. Human usage and custom were lacking, but by divine power a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and Virgin she remained” (Sermons 22:2 [A.D. 450]).
The quote from him was from his commentary on the Book of Matthew. The Church fathers all based their beliefs on the perpetual Virginity of Mary on the Bible. They were scholars and would discuss, debate and teach the faith and show how the Church’s teachings were supported by Scripture. If their discussion was on matters which were not yet official dogma they would lay out their arguments based on Scripture.
This was done not only regarding the Perpetual Virginity of Mary but such universally accepted doctrines which were once questioned such as the Divinity of Christ.
how did Jesus' brothers happen along?
You wrote:
“There is no evidence she vowed life long virginity.”
Yes, there is. What happened to Zachary did not happen to her even though they said similar things to Gabriel. Why?
The mormons teach she was one of their gods wives too..
So would you say the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary.. that is how a marriage is consummated
You wrote:
“Wrong. I’ve had 13 years of Catholic parochial and prep schools.”
Sorry, I don’t believe you - except if we conclude that anti-Catholicism really is a mental illness which effects the sufferer’s ability to think.
“Seriously, “Hilary of Poitiers” did NOT write anything in the Bible.”
No one said he was. I have read the whole thread. It seems pretty clear you were being directed to a source of not and not to a scriptural verse in itself. Did you stop to think that perhaps St. Hilary’s book contains verses from scriptural you might benefit from or that might better answer your question? Apparently not.
Who was Zachary?
You wrote:
“The mormons teach she was one of their gods wives too..”
Not “too” but singularly. No orthodox Christian - and Mormons are not Christian at all - believes the Virgin Mary had sex with anyone let alone a god.
“So would you say the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary.. that is how a marriage is consummated”
Not all marriages need be consummated - hence the term josephite marriage.
You wrote:
“Who was Zachary?”
Oh, right, you’re a Protestant and therefore your knowledge of scripture is seriously in doubt. Read Luke 1. Ask yourself why Zachary (Zachariah in some translations) was punished and the Virgin Mary was not.
This is an excellent article from an Ethiopian Orthodox site. “The Perpetual Virgnity of St. Mary.”
http://www.ninesaintsethiopianorthodoxmonastery.org/id26.html
“Sorry, I don’t believe you...”
Ummmm.
Do you want to call my mom and ask her???
....not that I would give you her number ....
Ohhh, I just found this:
posted a while ago on FR: the only mistake is it should have said 9 years Catholic grade school.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2327607/posts?page=13#13
“On my Catholic education:
8 years Catholic grade school
4 years Catholic high school
weekly CCD classes by quite conservative Novus Ordo RCC priest
parents subscribed to National Catholic Register, the Wanderer, Fidelity and The Remnant, and I read them while growing up
my parents fought the Novus Ordo modernism tooth and nail and are now in the SSPX - I would politiely challenge you to ask them if they considered me to be inadequately catechized
I subscribed to Fidelity and Remnant in undergrad college and never stopped contending against modernism in the Catholic Church
I believe that will end this little conversation. God bless.
You wrote:
“We KNOW that every word in the scripture true.. What is the measuring rod for non scriptural teaching ?”
First, answer:
Do you expect every truth to be in Scripture?
If you do, then please show me a scriptural verse for that.
.
From the article “The Virginity of St. Mary.”
“Why is St. Mary’s Ever-Virginity so Important
Some would say that even if it can be proved, St. Mary’s Perpetual Virginity is not essential to the proclamation of the Gospel, and this is true on a certain level. In its essence, the Orthodox Church proclaims the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is our message, our reason for being, the very life of our life. Teaching about St. Mary is really meant for the initiates, those who have already accepted the Gospel and have committed themselves to Jesus Christ and to service in His Holy Church.
This is so because what St. Mary teaches us about the Incarnation of the Word of God requires that we first accept the Incarnation. Once we do, then her virginity not only after giving birth, but also before-and indeed the character of her entire life-become in themselves a wellspring of teaching about life in Christ and the glory of God. Indeed, she said as much herself. By stating that “all generations shall call me blessed,” St. Mary was not vainly contemplating her own uniqueness, but proclaiming the wonder that her life was to manifest Almighty God’s glorious victory in His Christ for all time.
St. Mary was not an accident vessel of God, someone picked out of the crowed as it were, as some would have us think in our day. Rather her role in our salvation was prepared from the beginning of the ages. The entire history of Israel-the Patriarchs, the Psalms, the Prophets, the giving of the Commandments-converged in the young woman who would answer the way all Israel should always have answered, and as we all are expected to answer now: “Behold the handmaiden of the Lord.”
But her purpose in salvation history did not end there. She was not cast aside as an article that is no longer useful. Instead her whole being and life would continue to point us without distraction to her Son. At the wedding of Cana in Galilee we hear her words: “Whatever He says to you, do it” (St. John 2:5). At her Son’s crucifixion, she stands fast at the foot of the Cross, this time pointing not with words but by her refusal to leave His side even in the face of what seemed an impossible nightmare. As we undertake to imitate this faithfulness in pointing always to Almighty God, we will begin to see in the same measure that St. Mary’s Perpetual Virginity is in fact her ever-ministry, the ideal example for our own ministry.
It is important to recover the proper Veneration of St. Mary which the Apostolic Church has always held, not because St. Mary is the great exception but, as one Orthodox theologian has said, because she is the Great Example. This Veneration is beautifully expressed in an Orthodox hymn that poetically recounts the Archangel St. Gabriel’s first encounter with the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, who was about to become the Ark of the New Covenant, the throne of God, the flesh which gave flesh to the Word of God:”
And if he had sexual intercourse with her he dishonored the Holy Spirit.
Why? Their marriage was sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
I don’t think the most vehement of the posters here even consider that Mary was through the grace of God the one person most perfectly united with the Holy Trinity.
Daughter of the Father. Mother of the Son. and Spouse of the Holy Spirit. Not in any sexual context but in a relationship context.
You wrote:
“Ummmm. Do you want to call my mom and ask her???”
Post her number here and I’ll think about it. Also, do not PM me with it. Just post it in the thread for everyone to see. Also, what reason do I have to believe she will be honest?
“....not that I would give you her number ....”
Ah, I see. So much for honesty already, huh?
“Ohhh, I just found this: posted a while ago on FR: the only mistake is it should have said 9 years Catholic grade school.”
You failed a grade? I went to 8 years of Catholic grade school. There is no ninth year. Which grade did you fail?
“my parents fought the Novus Ordo modernism tooth and nail and are now in the SSPX - I would politiely challenge you to ask them if they considered me to be inadequately catechized”
Apparently you would not do so - since you won’t give out the number anyway - and I would have no reason to believe them anyway.
I don’t believe anti-Catholics. I have had them lie to my face and lie to me many times online. They’ve lied to me about their origins, beliefs, lives, marriages - one even lied about being a priest until he was exposed as a fraud by someone else. I simply have no reason to ever believe or trust anti-Catholics.
I agree with you.
Judging by the energy which many non-Catholics invest in trying to undermine the doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity, quite a lot apparently. It's not simply an attitude of....."I don't care if she was a perpetual virgin"...........rather, it's ........no, she was not a perpetual virgin". IOW, they appear to be as heavily invested in the idea that Mary's virginity was not perpetual, as the Church is invested in the teaching that it is perpetual.
BTW, "sex-life" is a terrible, modern trivializing term for the conjugal act.
Why does Mary's virginity matter for your salvation?
Because it highlights the uniqueness of the Incarnation of Jesus. The womb which bore Jesus, bore no other. It emphasizes the fullness of God's plan of salvation and Mary's place in it. This womb which bore God made man, remained forever a shrine to He who dwelt there for nine months. Inviolate and pure.
It is an important proof of His Godhead.
Jesus was not just one of a series of products of this womb. He was the only one.
I like to think of the protestant mindset on Scripture as autonomous individualism. Whatever I think the Bible says, that's what it says.
True, they may gather around a pastor who gives them instruction on what HE thinks the Bible says. There are thousands of denominational differences as a result, and untold differences of opinion by individual pastors. The believer claims the Holy Spirit teaches him personally to know what the truths of Scripture are, yet how can God lead so many people to form so many different conclusions?
Doctrinal chaos. I wonder who's really behind that?
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