CALVINISM IN AMERICA [Happy "Presbyterian Rebellion" Day, everybody!]

Reformed Theology.org ^ | Loraine Boettner

[Quix]

Prayers for you and yours, Dear Heart.

Please give me an update when you can.

[MarkBsnr]

As the Reformation, so went the Revolution. Thank God.

I certainly hope not. The first failed miserably.

[MarkBsnr]

Especially when you consider that the record of Calvinism is just as stained and bloody as the record of Catholicism on that regard. Sorry, but Calvinism is no friend of true liberty, regardless of what the cheerleaders may have managed to convince themselves of.

If you consider sheer numbers, more. Much more.

[MarkBsnr]

Some people don't see the 4th of July as a celebration of the birth of our nation but as an opportunity for spreading their revisionist history and propaganda. You know, it's all about them. Which, of course, is exactly what Presbyterians teach.

Failure rankles amongst our antagonists...

[Salvation]

I find this strange to be pulling denominations apart and promoting divisions on a day when we could be joining together to celebrate the freedom we DO HAVE to worship as we please.

Independence Day

Independence Day (USA)
[In the dioceses of the United States]
Optional Memorial
July 4th

The National Hymn | Pledge of Allegiance

On this day Americans commemorate the adoption of the Declaration of Independence, which took place on July 4, 1776. The church in the U.S. incorporated this observance into the liturgy with a special mass asking for peace, justice, and truth. (Source: Daily Roman Missal, Edited by Rev. James Socías, Midwest Theological Forum, Chicago, Illinois ©2003)

Collect:
God of love, Father of us all
in wisdom and goodness you guide creation
to fulfillment in Christ your Son.
Open our hearts to the truth of His gospel,
that your peace may rule in our hearts
and your justice guide our lives.
Grant this through our Lord Jesus Christ, Your Son,
who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit,
one God, forever and ever. Amen.

Readings: from Masses for Various Occasions & Needs (For Public Needs)

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See section on this site: Catholics and Political Responsibility
Making Words Count - Voters must be mindful of media manipulation Michaelmas 2002 Vol. XVII, No. 3

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The Flag Salute
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands:
One nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.

The "flag salute" was composed by Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister, and was first published in the Youth Companion magazine in 1892. In 1923, "of the United States of America" was added; and in 1954, the phrase "under God".

The phrase "under God" has been challenged. In late June 2002, a decision by a judge of the 9th Circuit Court declared "under God" unconstitutional, though following an immediate and enormous public outcry from Americans everywhere, he stayed his own decision.

June 21, 2003 - Update from the Ventura County Star - California Governor Gray Davis has asked the US Supreme Court to review the decision banning the Pledge. The review is based on "national cultural" and "social importance".

June 14, 2004: The US Supreme Court ruled that the plaintiff, Newdow, had insufficient legal standing to sue, thus the Court avoided deciding the merits of the case. Thus "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance is retained.

Copy of the Decision at http://www.supremecourtus.gov/

Elk Grove Unified School Dist. v. Newdow http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14june20041230/www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/03pdf/02-1624.pdf

TALENT & AKIN ANNOUNCE PROTECT THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE BILL
Wednesday, July 2, 2003

(ST. CHARLES, MO) US Senator Jim Talent (R-Mo.) and Congressman Todd Akin (R-Mo.) today announced legislation they have introduced in the US Congress to protect the Pledge of Allegiance at a pro-Pledge rally in St. Charles.

Sen. Talent and Rep. Akin have introduced the Protect the Pledge Act of 2003 (S. 1297/H.R. 2028), which would regulate the jurisdiction of the lower federal courts, such as San Francisco's Ninth Circuit Court, to hear cases that challenge the constitutionality of the Pledge of Allegiance.

"I believe it is the responsibility of Congress to protect the Constitution and the Pledge of Allegiance", Talent said. "The Senate voted unanimously to support the use of 'under God' in the Pledge, but in my judgment we should do more. The Protect the Pledge Act preserves and protects individual rights to affirm their beliefs and pledge their allegiance to the flag while making certain that no person would ever be forced to say 'under God' when reciting the Pledge. I am optimistic that we can rally Congress to defend the Constitution and protect the Pledge by limiting the jurisdiction of the lower federal courts.

Talent and Akin's legislation removes the issue of the Pledge of Allegiance's constitutionality from the jurisdiction of federal district and appeals courts, while maintaining the jurisdiction of state courts and the U.S. Supreme Court over such cases.

Under Article III of the Constitution, Congress has the power to regulate the jurisdiction of the lower federal courts as a check in our government's system of checks and balances. In the past, Congress has used this power to prevent or overrule judicial abuse in administration of the environmental, immigration, and labor laws.

The effect of Talent and Akin's legislation would be to overrule the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco, which ruled, in what is now an infamous case, that the Pledge of Allegiance was unconstitutional because it uses the phrase "one nation under God.
Source:http://talent.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=205732

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The National Hymn
God of our Fathers

[Celtic Cross]

You never miss an opportunity to take a stab at Catholicism...Impressive really.

[BlueDragon]

Don't try to pretend to know what I think. I don't restrict study of history to Catholic aplogetics as some here seem to. sORRY, but I don't buy into the brainwashing.

Catholics were slaughtering (proto-)Baptists long before any Calvinists joined in the fray. The Calvinists LEARNED religious violence and repression from who? well, not from any Baptists, that's for sure. I leave it to you to figure it out...

One thing we do know -- the idea of freedom among men, freedom from the tyranny of earthly kings -- did NOT flow out of the Roman Church circa 1400-1700.

They mouth agreement to it now, because they can no longer afford to argue against it.

...it burns you up, doesn't it? what you champion, was in past centuries the enemy of what is held dear by many in this nation. Freedom. (not a "Catholic" idea!)

[Diamond]

They, like Calvinists, didn't believe in missionary work...

Calvinists didn't believe in missionary work?

First, this is what Calvin himself said about evangelism: “It is no small consolation to godly teachers that, although the larger part of the world does not listen to Christ, He has His sheep whom He knows and by whom He is also known. They (all preachers) must do their utmost to bring the whole world into Christ’s fold, but when they do not succeed as they would wish, they must be satisfied with the single thought that those who are sheep will be collected together by their work.” (Calvin’s Commentary on John 17:9).

Second, Calvin evangelized neighboring France. At the beginning of the reformation in 1555, there was only one church. In 1562 Calvin’s movement had led to the formation of 2150 local protestant congregations in an area hostile to protestants Christians.

Third, Calvin himself sent out more worldwide missionaries than most Arminian churches today. Historians have called his Geneva a “hub of vast missionary enterprise” (Frank A. James, III, “Calvin and Missions,” Christian History, 5 no. 4 (Fall 1986) : 23.) For example, historical records show that just in one year, 142 missionaries were sent out by Calvin to go around the world and reach people with the gospel message. Some were even sent to Brazil where they were killed. (Hughes, “John Calvin: D. O. M,” 46; cf. also McGrath, 184).

Fourth, the modern missionary movement as we have come to know it, was founded and stimulated by William Carey, a Calvinist! Today he is called “the father of modern missions” after spending 58 years of his life on Indian soil preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. In fact, a great majority of early missionaries were Calvinists, men like David Brainerd, John G. Paton, Henry Martyn and a host of others. Hundreds of Calvinists were martyred and died sharing the good news of Jesus to sinners. Looking through the history of our modern world we can see that at all times Calvinists have eagerly taken the gospel to nations and people all over the world, from missionaries who died in small tribes, to great revivals and awakenings that swept the western world, reformed Christians have been at the forefront of mission and evangelism work, proclaiming salvation to those  enslaved to sin.

With apostle Paul reformed Christians say ”For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory.” (2 Tim 2:10)
7 misconceptions people hold about Calvinism

And this is not even to mention the tremendous missionary ministries of men such as Gerorge Whitfield, Theodore Frelinghuysen, a Dutch reformed Pietist, Gilbert Tennent and Jonathan Edwards, staunch Calvinists all, which were so used by God in what we know as the Great Awakening.

Cordially,

[Rashputin]

It's no misconception to say that the majority of Presbyterians think missionary work is a waste of time and don't support it. Pointing to Calvin or anyone else is little more than a bad joke coming from anyone who subscribes to that most Protestant of all doctrines, the doctrine of "Sola Yourselfa"..

Are you saying that Calvin was infallible? Are you personally infallible? Please, what Pope Calvin had to say is moot since each and every Presbyterian can interpret Scriptures as they personally see fit. That's exactly why there are more than a few Presbyterian churches each claiming to be the real and true Calvinists.

[Religion Moderator]

Do not make this thread "about" individual Freepers. That is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[Celtic Cross]

Pound sand buddy.

[Salvation]

Were you aware that George Washington may have become a Catholic?

George Washington, November 5, 1775, General Orders
George Washington: Letter to the Roman Catholics

George Washington's Prophesy [sic] of America
Happy 278th Birthday George Washington, The 1st and Best President the US has ever had.
The Character of George Washington
10 Things We Should Know About George Washington
The Popes on "the Great Washington"
Where Have you Gone George Washington?
A Few Quotes from George Washington
Mighty Washington: The greatest President
George Washington’s Tear-Jerker
This Day In History February 4,1789 George Washington is elected president

[Salvation]

Charles Carroll, founding father and "an exemplar of Catholic and republican virtue" [Ecumenical]

[BlueDragon]

Were you aware that George Washington may have become a Catholic?

No, I wasn't aware of that possibility. It wouldn't diminish him one iota, as far as I'm concerned.

Certainly, he was highly regarded by most all of his peers.

An interesting man, not without his own inner conflicts and struggles, although quiet and reticent about such, mentioning them only briefly.

He knew government by it's nature included the claimed powers to commit violence. He fought against such a government, yet fought to institute another which would make the same claim of power. I get the impression he was smart enough to realize the possibility that the "new" could grow to become as bad as the "old".

Such a similar mindset helped guide the framers of the Constitution to attempt to limit the powers of government, over men. It worked, after a fashion, But as with most all doings of man, it has produced mixed results, even from the very beginning. Which leads us right back to the real source of the troubles. The wicked heart of man(kind).

[vox_freedom]

bump to watch...

[Salvation]

I guess the rumor is that on his deathbed he converted to Catholicism. We’ll know someday, huh?

[BlueDragon]

This is a day for FREEDOM. Which did not flow to this nation through the offices of any pope! God had to by-pass the self-important clowns of Rome to get it done.

Welcome to America, the land of the Free, home of the brave.