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Is Prodigal Son Church and Older Brother Israel?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2015:11-32&version=KJV | marbren

Posted on 10/15/2011 9:30:31 AM PDT by marbren

Luke 15:11-32

(KJV)

11And he said, A certain man had two sons:

12And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

13And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

14And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.

15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.

16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.

17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,


TOPICS: Apologetics
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

I started another open thread on who is Simon the magician. Based on internet sources that thread could get ugly. I would like to know the truth.


141 posted on 10/16/2011 3:44:35 PM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

YES! It is amazing!


142 posted on 10/16/2011 3:48:16 PM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; The Theophilus; one Lord one faith one baptism
If you post this sort of thing in "Dispensational Caucus", it eliminates non-Christians hijacking the thread with false doctrines.

Extra Scofieldism Nulla Salis? Outside of dispensationalism, there is no salvation -- is that what you mean to say? Disgusting, if true.

Note my comment here: "Inevitable? No. It is my no means true of all, but from what I've observed the center of their theology is often not where it should be, but rather in Israel according to the flesh and their quirky end times scenario. They become unbalanced, speculating about angels (nephelim) and endless genealogies, and something like the Trinity just doesn't matter much to some of them. Like I said, they have weird friends and fellow travellers."

Then those of us who take the Bible as God wrote it instead of our own allegorized version of the Bible can have a civilized, edifying discussion about the Bible.

It's been demonstrated that the dispensational scheme, at the very least, can't handle time texts in a coherent manner.

Feel free to post Dispensational topics under the "Dispensational Caucus" designation. I'll send you the ping list if you want.

As long as you-all refrain, hard as appears to be, from mentioning any other views, I'll not object.

It's a nice little place (very frequently resorted to I note) for you to say whatever you want, without having to answer any objections. Go ahead. An interesting amount of "Teh Crazy" often manifests.

143 posted on 10/16/2011 4:19:42 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: marbren
I did a bit of research and found some who think the younger son is Israel and the older brother is the Church. What if it is the other way around? I do not know, Thank God, God knows.

I like your question and I think you are right though I don’t know for sure. Here is some evidence that I have come across over the years. As we see patterns in scripture, we can follow them to see where they lead
1 Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
This is a rule in scripture confirmed with examples. Some of them are brothers. Cain and Able, Ishmael and Isaac, Esau and Jacob. In each case, the order is the same. The brother that represents the natural man is first and the brother that represents the spiritual man is second.

I have not included Shem or Abraham who were not first born, but in their cases, there were three brothers and the analogy is different. I don’t think there are any first-born sons in Christ’s genealogy

Following the same rule. You have the Old Testament, which gives us the history of the natural man, Adam and the New Testament, which give us the history of the spiritual man Christ.

It is also possible that some of the types can be first or second depending on context. Esau is to Jacob as Jacob is to Israel as Israel is to the Church.

Seven
144 posted on 10/16/2011 4:48:03 PM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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To: smvoice

you have been threatening to show us this but to date it’s all talk. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


145 posted on 10/16/2011 6:26:40 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: smvoice; The Theophilus; Lee N. Field; GiovannaNicoletta

FYI - TT is not Catholic. This is not a Catholic/Protestant issue, the historical, orthodox, biblical postion is the Church is the Israel of God. to believe non-dispensationalists are not Christian would mean there were no Christians around for 1,800 years. ( btw - that’s the Mormon belief, nice company huh? )


146 posted on 10/16/2011 6:34:42 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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Comment #147 Removed by Moderator

To: smvoice

your choice. it’s weird someone promises to hoist someone on their own petard and doesn’t follow up.
makes one think maybe they can’t do it, what do you think?


148 posted on 10/16/2011 6:39:12 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Believing that the Church is the Israel of God is your first problem. Of many.


149 posted on 10/16/2011 6:39:21 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

It’s killing you, isn’t it?lol! It’s there and you cannot find it. Nor will you search for it. You just want someone to hand it over to you..


150 posted on 10/16/2011 6:42:31 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: CynicalBear
Don’t even go into “the Church” nonsense with me. The CC is so far off from true scripture it doesn’t deserve discussion.

Oh, now there's a statement filled with reason and logic /s /I

151 posted on 10/16/2011 6:56:04 PM PDT by Judith Anne ( Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Lee N. Field
You have spent years lying about what dispensationalists believe even after being told the truth repeatedly. You have never been able to back up your lies about us with facts. Not once.

You have never once been able to support whatever it is you believe with Scripture and all you can do is obsess over the fact that there are people who take the Bible as God wrote it and do not change it to mean what they want it to mean like you and people like you do. All you can do is deny Scripture and futilely attempt to discredit and ridicule those who believe what God said and have not only Scripture to back us up, but historical fact and present fulfillment of Biblical prophecies to validate what we believe.

Unlike you, dispensationalists can provide Scripture for everything we believe. You and your phony, manufactured "indignation" are a joke.

You, who inexplicably give yourself some equivalence with God to decide what in Scripture is true and what is not, are in no position to accuse others of anything. And as for salvation, you might want to find out what it is. People who truly know Christ as Savior don't have the narcissistic delusions of grandeur to deny God and His Bible and to deny reality.

In case you haven't noticed over the past year or so, I have nothing to say to you. Do not post to me again.

152 posted on 10/17/2011 1:37:04 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta ("....in the last days, mockers will come with their mocking...." (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
No one in Church history ever heard of this “dispensationalism” until the 19th century

You are way behind the rest of the class on this one ...

153 posted on 10/17/2011 6:33:56 AM PDT by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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To: yldstrk
You are unlikely to get a cogent explanation of dispensationalism from a non-dispensationalist.

I have found that the folks up here who dispute dispensational claims have no essential understanding of dispensationalism at all ... but more importantly ... they are not even aware of the underlying issues that seperate dispensational and non-dispensational theology ...

If you are interested, there is a book called "There Really is a Difference" by R. Showers. It won't convince you of anything, but it will highlight the differences.

If you are inclinded to the more scholarly work, I can suggest the following paper which I believe nails it ...

http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Stallard-LITERALHERMENEUTICST.pdf

Regards ...

154 posted on 10/17/2011 6:50:30 AM PDT by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
we are saved by being “in Christ”

You have it completely backwards...

155 posted on 10/17/2011 8:37:43 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: marbren
"Is Prodigal Son Church and Older Brother Israel?"

IMHO, There is prophecy in every parable.

There is a direct correlation in the difference between the "House of Israel" and the "House of Judah," I think, albeit that subject matter is usually portrayed as two 'wives' of YHWH. Answer me this; Look at Isaiah 53, the death of Yeshua, and then look at Isaiah 54: Who is the 'barren woman' who is told to leap for joy (as a consequence of 53)?

156 posted on 10/17/2011 9:52:25 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Lee N. Field

Nice response and you got called a liar for it.

You must be over the target... LOL!


157 posted on 10/17/2011 11:14:17 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: Seven_0

Thank you for your comments. This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for when I asked my OP question. I have learned some new information from your post. God’s word is amazing! We do not have a clue as to all the levels in God’s Word. IMHO Your post contains wisdom.


158 posted on 10/17/2011 12:23:51 PM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: roamer_1
IMHO, There is prophecy in every parable.

IMHO your HO contains wisdom. Thank You for your comment and the Isaiah references for me to investigate!

159 posted on 10/17/2011 12:27:57 PM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: GourmetDan
Nice response and you got called a liar for it.

About par. I note that the most serious allegation ("extra scofieldism nulla salus") is unanswered.

I contemplate a response.

You must be over the target... LOL!

I need to adjust my sights, or my load.

160 posted on 10/17/2011 2:12:38 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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