Posted on 12/15/2011 10:14:12 AM PST by Cronos
Sadly, many in our brotherhood would answer “yes” to this question. Denominations have for years taught that it does not matter what church you attend, as long as a person is sincere and honest. Many in the Lord’s church have swallowed this idea. They cry long and hard that there are sincere, devout Christians in any given denomination. It is no wonder, then, that many congregations of the Lord’s church have joined hands with denominational churches to promote or to participate in any number of things. Of course, they consider their actions to have Biblical backing. They proclaim the words of Jesus in defense of their endeavors: "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold” (Jn.10:16). To them, “this fold” represents the Church of Christ (denominational concept of the Lord’s church), and the other sheep outside of “this fold” represent God’s children scattered among the denominations. Does this interpretation have credence? Is it the case that there are devout Christians in denominations? The answer is no to both questions.
The passage under consideration does not support the idea that there are devout Christians in denominations. To the dismay of those who would espouse this soul-damning doctrine, this passage destroys their convoluted thinking. There is no hint of such a doctrine taught in this passage, nor is it even possible that this passage could teach such. The New Testament knows nothing of denominationalism. In the first century, there was one church and only one church (Eph.4:4). Although the seeds of denominationalism were being planted during the first century, these seeds did not bloom until after the close of New Testament times. To claim that John 10:16 deals in any respect with denominationalism is to force a 21st century interpretation on a 1st century passage.
The latter half of the verse under consideration inflicts even more damage upon the idea that there are devout Christians in denominations. Christ proclaimed that the “other sheep” would be brought into “one fold” under the care of “one shepherd.” This one fold is the one church! And this one church is under the care of the Great Shepherd Jesus Christ! Those in denominations follow the voice of Luther, or Calvin, or Wesley, or Pope John Paul II, but they are not following the voice of the Great Shepherd! The other sheep to whom Jesus was referring were the Gentiles. Though there were some Gentiles who sought God, and anticipated the coming of the Messiah, the Jews and Gentiles remained separated. Through Christ’s death, he would bring both Jew and Gentile together in one body, one fold (Eph.2:14)! The Lord’s church today is a fulfillment of John 10:16—both Jew and Gentile in one body under the care of the Great Shepherd.
Are there devout Christians in denominations? No. Are there children of God in denominations? Yes, but only because they chose to leave the safety of the one fold, the Lord’s church, to follow the doctrines and commandments of men. Those who have done so must repent and return to the church of our Lord before it is eternally too late! PM
I quite agree, which is why I listed the three groups separately.
Secondly, no protestant church believes it is the ‘only true church’.
I presume whichever Church I came up with that believes exactly this, you would pull the "no true Scotsman" bit and claim they aren't really Protestant.
There are thousands of "Protestant" groups around the world, and you can confidently state that not one of them believes it is the only true Church? You must really get around.
not that a restoration was needed (as if it never held truth) but that a reformation (a return to the church of Late Antiquity) was required.
Restoration: restoring of something to former condition: the restoring of something such as buildings or furniture to an earlier and usually better condition.
I don't think the word "restoration" means what you think it means. Here's a link I found in just a few minutes of a Protestant who seems to think the Reformation "restored" the church to its original purity.
http://www.reformationtheology.com/2007/10/the_story_of_martin_luther_the.php
In secular terms, I think restoring our Constitution to its original place in our society would constitute both a reformation and a restoration.
IOW, one of the ways something can be reformed is to restore it to a prior and more desirable state.
BTW, I bear no hostility to either Protestants or Catholics (or Mormons or JWs) for that matter.
The fellowship commonly known as churches of Christ has no organizational structure higher/beyond the local congregation. Each congregation is autonomous. Because of that, “movements” can arise within the broader fellowship with varying ideas and practices, even though the sign outside the building says “So-and-So Church of Christ.”
Suffice it to say that all of the congregations that I have been a member of during the previously mentioned 30 years are listed in the “World Wide Directory of Churches of Christ” — http://church-of-christ.org/churches/.
I have been deeply involved in congregations in Texas, Florida, Australia, and Africa. I studied full time for 2 years in one of their schools of preaching, and later earned a BA from one of their universities.
I don’t mean to sound rude, but simply by stating that “There are at least 13 different groups using that name” displays your ignorance. It all depends on how you classify. In one sense there are thousands of “groups” because each congregation is autonomous. There are even disagreements within the same building.
I have argued with brethren, for example, on whether it is acceptable to eat in the church building. These “antis” comprise a minority but significant swath of churches of Christ but are themselves diverse in there positions. There are many congregations that use instrumental music, for example, although most don’t. The varieties are not 13, but endless.
I suspect that the only thing they mostly agree on is the irrelevance of Alexander Campbell.
It grieves me to see people who try to limit God’s impact to their own clique. People who have the Holy Spirit can sometimes sense others who are brothers/sisters in the same Spirit. I am in a non-denominational church but I am certain the Spirit has told me that others are committed and believing Christians who also happen to be Baptists, Catholics, Pentecostals, Church of Christ and other.
It’s not what’s in the church. It’s what’s in the believer. Jesus knows His own and I would never limit Jesus to only one denomination. HIS denomination is those who accept HIM as their personal savior and ask the Holy Spirit to live within them. I don’t think He cares which pew you sit in.
***Are there devout Christians in denominations? No. Are there children of God in denominations? Yes, but only because they chose to leave the safety of the one fold, the Lord’s church, to follow the doctrines and commandments of men***
What utter nonsense! Their CofC belief is that THEY are the only true church and everyone else is going to H€LL.
I went to the Mabelvale CofC for several years while living near Little Rock Arkansas bout 45 years ago.
I dated a girl there and we were about to get married but she demanded I join their church which I had no desire to do.
We broke up as a result and it caused me problems for years.
Are we about to return to the good old days of 2005-2007 when we had the CAMPBELLITE WARS here on FR? Sharpening my bible knowlege as a result!
There are several CofC Campbellite churches near here and they don’t really associate with each other too much due to legalistic differences.
Church 1. No music but does have a Sunday school class.
Church 2. Has music and Sunday school class, shunned by the others.
Church 3. No music, no Sunday school class, NO church kitchen!
Church 4. No mucic, no sunday school class. NO kitchen. Has one cup communion, not individual cups.
Can anyone give me the name of a CofC author who has penned a Standard Works reference book that all denominations consider to be trustworthy?
****many Texas Southern Baptists have been taught from the pulpit that if you’re not SB you’re going to hell.***
Must be something in the alkali water. Nothing like that is mentioned in The Baptist Faith and Message.
I am a member of the churches of Christ. I believe that Christ is the perfect Judge and am happy to leave it up to Him who His sheep are. I have enough problems worrying about myself to police others.
The churches of Christ are made up of autonomous congregations, under the leadership of elders for that congregation (Acts 20:28, 1 Pet. 5:1-2). There is no central presbytery, council, convention, or other body that prescribes doctrine and practice. So there is a diversity of views not just among members but among congregations.
The churches of Christ seek to be guided in their faith and practice by the teachings of Christ and the apostles and deem the New Testament scriptures to be sufficient for that purpose without binding the extrabiblical writings of mankind.
Among one to two million members in the U.S., I do not doubt that there may be some members of churches of Christ who believe those of other Christian groups will not go to heaven. Among millions of Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc., some members of those groups, too, may hold such views.
I’m well-content to let the Lord sort it all out.
Apostasy was known in the 1st Century, see book of Jude. The difference is that the Church of Christ congratulation do not believe in a total Apostasy as the followers of Joseph Smith do.
As you bring up Campbell etc.. a fair description of the American Restoration Movement can be found at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoration_Movement
and a general over view of the Church of Christ can be found at
http://church-of-christ.org/who.html#restore
I will not attempt to argue with an web site.. but one may wish to recall
Acts 2:36 and following
36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
I suspect just about all who claim to be Christians would agree with this. But it just moves the disagreement to one about which issues are essentials and which are non-essentials.
The subject here is whether being in the wrong church or denomination will exclude you from heaven.
Let's go back to the early Church. There were multitudes of competing groups then, just as now.
Question for you: Would being a member of a Gnostic sect or an Arian exclude you from heaven? How about a Manichaean?
All these groups claimed to have faith in God and Christ, no matter how much they disagreed on who They were.
Yet most Christians of today would consider them to have been severely misguided, with their heresy varying from mild to extreme.
Presumably you, like most, would exclude some of these groups from the name "Christian." So what is the objective measure you use to draw the line? You claim there is no line, but I suspect you have one, though you might draw it in a different place than the author of the article above.
The “boston movement” or IOCC is far removed from Church of Christ Congregational movement.
“Can anyone give me the name of a CofC author who has penned a Standard Works reference book that all denominations consider to be trustworthy?”
Ruy—you might start with Everett Feguson, Jack Lewis, and James W. Thompson for starters.
But don’t let those scholars keep you with painting with the broadest of brushes. (Something, it appears, that the congregation in Mabelvale is also trying to do.)
Yes the Church of Christ Congregations do not have instrumental music, the reason for this is that there is no example or instruction do so in the New Testament.
Hope that helps.
And as a rule the Church of Christ Congregations are conditioned non-denominational
I don’t get it. Are you referring to the Church of Christ as exemplified by a church in my neighborhood or are you speaking of the the so-called One True Church, the Roman Catholic Church? Are you also condemning non-Church of Christ members? You are not very clear. Also, do you consider yourself a Christian?
“I wish that were true; however, many Texas Southern Baptists have been taught from the pulpit that if you’re not SB you’re going to hell. C of C’ers believe if you’re not C of C, you’re going to hell. Wisconsin Synod Lutherans believe if you’re not WSL, you’re going to hell.”
I doubt you have ever a heard a Southern Baptist or Lutheran say that.
As a member of Church oi Christ congregation for most of my life (25+ years)
I do not try to say who will or will not be saved, its not my job nor could I do it ! I just have the New Testament as the instructions as to how one may be saved.
Really? Can you link to a statement by a LCWS official that says as much?
True. But if those “instructions” go beyond repenting and believing the Gospel(that is that Jesus Christ’s death on the cross atoned for our sins) we are in danger of preaching a different Gospel as the Galatians were warned by the Apostle Paul.
Sherman Logan is not on any Catholic list that I’ve seen.
New Testament = Instructions in my statement.
No more no less.
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