The mystery of 666 Explained - Nero! {Ecumenical thread}

ecclesia.org ^ | 2009 | Richard Anthony

[Boogieman]

“Nero was dead when Revelation was written.”

Yes, but the preterists have any number of other reasons why they MUST date the writing of Revelation prior to 70 AD, so this fact won’t deter them.

[STD]

To a Pederast...EVERYTHING happens to 9 year old boys.

Just ask the Jerkoff Jerry Sandusky Family, or Joe 'I'll Play Like Daddy' Paterno his Cult and Family, which are up to their eyeballs in a Pedophilia Ring supported by the Penn State U Administration from the very top down.

[circlecity]

"Yes, but the preterists have any number of other reasons why they MUST date the writing of Revelation prior to 70 AD, so this fact won’t deter them."

To fit all the Nero theory it would have to have been even before then. I've read Gentry's case for the early date of Revelation and I don't find it persuasive.

[rzman21]

Not to mention, the Byzantine lectionary omits readings from Revelation to this day.

[patlin]

Paul rejected the Rabbinic oral law(Talmud) that said circumcision of the flesh was required for salvation, period.

Rm 3:30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

[patlin]

The Talmud is usually considered part of the Torah, is it not?

ABSOLUTELY NOT! This is the reason Messiah had to come, to put the “Talmud Terrorists” back in their closet of darkness where it belongs. All prophesy in Moses(Torah) tells us that this would happen, that the house of Judah would put up walls in order to keep the dispersed house of Israel from returning and that is the new covenant, to bring the 2 houses back under one roof so to speak. Judaism to this day will tell you that it is equivalent if not superior to the Torah but that is just plain blasphemy. While there is much one can gleam from the Talmud as far as history of Temple service and prayer, the oral law they use to put a fence around their religion in order to discourage gentiles is from man, not from the Holy Spirit. They even admit it(Talmud) is not quote the “inspired” word of YHVH.

There were 2 sects of Judaism at odds with each other during the time of Messiah, the house of Hillel and the house of Shammai. Messiah and his followers were of the house of Hillel. The “Talmud Terrorists” were of the house of Shammai that had put in place “18 Edicts” as well as the physical 3 foot wall of separation in the temple to keep their brethren of the hosue of Israel from gaining full access to the temple. They considered them lower class and did everything they could to discourage them from returning back to the covenant after the dispersion.

[GreyFriar]

This sounds familiar? Did we discuss this theory at 1st Century?

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Better known as Nero Caesar. *****

This has been known for years and is not news. Some groups try to make it out to be the Pope but that doesn’t work.

[jjotto]

Bizarre, personal version of the history of Judaism!

Both the House of Hillel and Shammai were Talmudists, and both are still cited in discussions.

[Campion]

To fit all the Nero theory it would have to have been even before then.

To fit the futurist theory, you have to ignore the very first verse of the book, which states that it concerns "things which must soon happen". An angel told Daniel to "seal up the book" because they described things which would happen 500 years after he wrote. An angel tells John that he's writing about events which "must soon happen," and they're 2000+ years in the future? Doesn't make sense.

There is no other world-historical event in the Christian era, after the resurrection and short of the Second Coming, which can compare to the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. In one fell swoop, God put an end to the sacrificial system of the Mosaic Law, because the New Sacrifice had arrived and been instituted, the one that could actually take away sins, as Hebrews notes the blood of bulls and goats could never do.

It makes no sense that the NT would not take note of these events. I believe it did, but didn't record them as history in retrospective, but as prophetic utterance. And it recorded them in two books, Hebrews and Revelation. If that requires Revelation to have been written before AD 70, so be it. (I'm not sure that it does require that; John could have been writing something as "prophecy" to explain events that had already taken place, as a kind of literary conceit.)

[patlin]

You shouldn't put words in ones mouth. I didn't say the house of Hillel didn't adhere to parts of the Talmud. As I said, much can be gleamed from the Talmud in order to better know our Messiah and the times he lived in. However, the house of Hillel held that works of the law were not required for conversion nor salvation, while the house of Shammai held that works were required for conversion.

Might I suggest you read the book, Jesus the Pharisee by Rabbi Falk. While I do not agree with his premise that there is something called the Noahide laws, his knowledge and study on the 2 houses as well as the history of the killings of hundreds of the house of Hillel by the orders of house of Shammai is quite eye opening and thought provoking. The is the reason the Essenes fled. They sided with the house of Hillel, thus in order to save their lives they were forced to relocate.

[jjotto]

I gotta admit, even in the bizarro world of Judaizing Christians, some statements of purported facts stun even a character as jaded as me!

[patlin]

I gotta admit, even in the bizarro world of Judaizing Christians

What is Judaizing? Did not YHVH give the Torah to all, not just the house of Judah? Did He not say that there is but one law for the native and for the ‘Ger’ who sojourns among them? Is not a ‘Ger’ different from a ‘Goy’?

So what gives Jews the exclusive rights to the Torah? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Therefore there is no such thing as Judaizing Christians, but there is such as thing as children of YHVH born a ‘goy’ and now a ‘Ger’, equal in all to a Jew and equal in ties to the Torah through Messiah.

[jjotto]

Psalm 147:19-20 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

exellent post, Jesus is reigning now as King and there will be no third coming. thank you for refuting dispensational nonsense invented in the infamous 19th century.

[patlin]

And so what is your point. 12 tribes came from Jacob, one of the was Judah(Jews). All were dispersed, 10 into Assyria and Judah & Benjamin went into Babylon. Most of Judah/Benjamin came back to Jerusalem and reestablished the temple, but the the majority of the 10 that went into Assyria remained in the dispersion.

Jer 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

Jer 50:6 “ My people have been lost sheep. Their shepherds have led them astray; They have turned them away on the mountains. They have gone from mountain to hill; They have forgotten their resting place.

Ez 37: 15 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.
18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.”’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.

Mt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’

Mt 15:24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

John 11:49 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish.” 51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation(Judah), 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad

[zot]

This sounds familiar? Did we discuss this theory at 1st Century?

Not this theory. We discussed the likelihood that 666 was written DCLXVI which is the letters used in the Roman Numeral system in their proper order, and thus pointed to the Roman Empire as the beast. (I have read that some ancient texts of Revelation have the number of the beast as 1666 which would be MDCLXVI)

[patlin]

John 11:49 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish.” 51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation(Judah), 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad

James(Jacob) 1:1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles(”goy”) in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens(”ger”= estranged) from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers(”goy”) from the covenants of promise ... 19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers(”goy”) and foreigners(”gpy”), but fellow citizens(”ger”) with the saints and members of the household of God

1 Peter:1 To the “pilgrims of the Dispersion”(”ger”) in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect(”bachiyr”=chosen like Moses) according to the foreknowledge of God the Father

One group clings to the front of the book, the other to the back of the book and thus they both remain blinded in part. But if they each would come together in humility as Messiah taught, then, and only then, can true restoration of Yah's house begin.

[Cronos]

Nero was the anti-Christ. Christ's reign is happening now. the "1000" number is, if you notice, the cube of 10. Hence signifying a large period of time.

Last time I checked, the world is NOT getting better -- that check was wrong -- humans are living longer --> Reprints & Permissions Children born today can expect to live longer than ever in U.S. history, according to preliminary government data released Wednesday. -- "Life expectancy at birth increased to 78.2 years in 2009, up from 78 years in 2008."

and "Death rates for 10 of the 15 leading causes of death decreased significantly between 2008 and 2009, including for heart disease, cancer and stroke."

Compare this with life expectancy in the USA in 1911 -- it was 55 years.

[Cronos]

>Last time I checked, the world is NOT getting better -- that check was wrong -- people in India, China, South America, Asean, even Africa are living longer, healthier lives with more of the necessities of life

The levels of poverty in each of those countries has dropped significantly comparing 2010 with 1980 -- families where parents were illiterate laborers are now living as middle-class households with a roof over their heads, food, etc.

so, yes, the world IS getting better