ONE mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus

Bible 1 Timothy 2:5 | 2012 | BibleTruth

[bibletruth]

1 Timothy 2:5 ...one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

If there is a debate here then it must follow Bible Scriptures to advocate reproofs, corrections, and instructions on how God the Father has ordained and appointed someone other than HIS SON Christ Jesus as that mediator. In light of 1 Timothy 2:5 - there is no debate here since God's Word clearly points out that that mediator is is Christ Jesus, who has been appointed 2,000 years ago between God and men.

[RobbyS]

Love. What is written by the finger of God on men’s hearts.

[aruanan]

I never encountered a single man who has ever referred to his children in that manner.

Ever......

And people now seldom use the expression, except in humor. Try Googling the expression. It's archaic English, like a lot of the KJV.

537,000 results fruit of his loins

389,000 results fruit of my loins

116,000 results fruit of their loins

204,000 results fruit of thy loins

[RobbyS]

There is scriptural support for the authority of the Church. If like Luther you start by rejecting the authority of the historic Church—the institution of the Church—then one falls back on the authority of the Scripture. But the Scripture is the Word of God according to Moses and later members of a living community, of Christ and his followers. They are the concrete expression of the Word. Why did Jesus not stay with us and lead us in person? Because souls animated by the Spirit could accomplish so much more. Why did Jesus, unlike Moses, not commit himself to writing a book? Because no book can contain Him.

[metmom]

And your point is?

[metmom]

Love. What is written by the finger of God on men’s hearts.

The unity we have is unity in the Spirit.

I don't recall anywhere where Scripture relates to us a *law of love*.

Ephesians 4 1-3 1 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

We are united to Christ and so in an indirect sense to each other through that, but that in no way indicates that we can or are permitted to contact those who are no longer living on this earth in our physical bodies. The prohibitions against contacting the dead have always been understood to mean those who have died physically, Catholic semantics notwithstanding.

Just because they are alive spiritually somewhere, which everyone is whether they're saved or not, is not enough to justify contacting them when God so clearly prohibits it.

[johngrace]

Good Points!!

[narses]

ALL scripture is someone’s personal interpretation if not by the Holy Spirit.If you can’t interpret scripture you very likely not a saved Christian.

And people interpret it as they will. Fortunately God appointed MEN as Apostles to govern His Church and gave them and their handpicked successors the Graces to protect and preserve His Church through the ages.

“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “

[newberger]

Then why pray to Mary at all?

Why ask ANYONE to pray for you?

Because God works through the prayers of His people.

[Religion Moderator]

The post 144 to which you replied was expressing the poster's opinion:

You probably

Your reply 159 to that post was mind reading:

you ignore

Conscious, subconscious and unconscious have nothing to do with it.

[RobbyS]

You say “always,” but there is not evidence that Christians thought this way prior to the Reformation. The evidence of the Roman catacombs, with the reverence of the dead, especially the martyrs, is to the contrary and these date back to the Second Century. Polycarp, at the start of that century, had many devotees, and must have been a truly extraordinary man. The martyrs and other saints were heroes of Christ whose work on earth for their fellow Christians was now assumed to continued in heaven as men’s ambassadors in the heavenly court. The leveling reformers of the 16th century were impatient with such heroes or any devotion that might detract from Christ.

[boatbums]

Basically, they think it's easier to get from or through Mary what God wouldn't give Himself if they directly asked Him themselves. God as put forth by Catholicism is capricious and judgmental and you don't want to annoy Him. They consider it self-declaring your own whatever when you stand by the promises He made for believers, So the Scripture that He hears and answers our prayers, which Jesus Himself told us was the case, somehow don't really mean what they say and don't apply to them.

If we look at some of Martin Luther's thoughts concerning praying to Mary as an "inside" track to the Father, we read:

“The Augustinian Order which [Luther] joined paid high honour to Mary. He remembered being afraid of Christ and taking refuge with Mary and saints, as though they were the mediators and Christ the judge and executioner. 'We held Christ to be our angry judge, and Mary our mercy-seat, in whom alone was all our trust and refuge.”[David Wright, Chosen By God: Mary in Evangelical Perspective, 163.]

“Luther recollected, “Christ in His mercy was hidden from my eyes. I wanted to become justified before God through the merits of the saints. This gave rise to the petition for the intercession of the saints. On a portrait St. Bernard, too, is portrayed adoring the Virgin Mary as she directs her Son, Christ, to the breasts that suckled Oh, how many kisses we bestowed on Mary”! Luther concluded though, that even in St Bernard’s incessant praise of Mary as she directs the sinner toward Christ, Bernard left out Christ completely: “Bernard filled a whole sermon with praise of the Virgin Mary and in so doing forgot to mention what happened [the incarnation of Christ]; so highly did he… esteem Mary.” Thus, young Luther partook in Mariolatry, but the mature Luther looking back saw only the excesses of medieval devotion and teaching on Mary. He saw that she had been adorned with attributes that only belonged to Christ.”

[Christ] became a great source of unhappiness in the cloister…he refers frequently to his conviction that Christ was indifferent to human woes and must be won over through the intercession of his mother, the Virgin. The picture of Christ sitting in judgement on the last day dwelt vividly in his mind, so that he could not shake off fears connected with it. [Luther said,] 'When I looked on Christ, I saw the Devil: so [I said], ‘Dear Mary, pray to your Son for me and still His anger.’

“Luther was convinced that the practice of invoking the saints only continued the medieval tendency to transform Christ the "kindly Mediator" into a "dreaded Judge" who is to be placated by the intercession of the saints and Mary, and by a multitude of other rites.”

“Germanus also was among the first to teach another doctrine that became a commonplace in medieval preaching and devotion; namely that Mary turns away God’s anger ‘and the sentence of damnation, because you love the Christians; refuge of sinners.’…such a division between God’s just anger and Mary’s mercy was certainly unknown in the earlier centuries, and is rejected today except as a devotional expression needing careful explanation.”

(http://tquid.sharpens.org/luther_mary2.htm#VII

[metmom]

You say “always,” but there is not evidence that Christians thought this way prior to the Reformation.

*always* in Scripture.

There is not one instance in Scripture of contact with the dead by those of us living being permitted or encouraged.

God's command is ALWAYS to not to try to contact the dead.

I don't particularly care what the ECF has to say about it because their writings are not God breathed infallible Scripture.

[Cronos]

Question — iscool, you have said before that you consider the trinity to be “a pagan idea” — can you quote scripture for your position?

[Cronos]

So, do you actually believe, as you said, that a mother creates the soul of a child?

[Cronos]

oh folks have read your posts through the years. 2010, 2011 etc.

[Cronos]

So it IS a personal question to ask you what you believe? Really? To ask you if you believe in One God, Father-Son-Holy Spirit? But it’s not personal when you ask someone else? wow....

[Cronos]

Iscool: Did God die on the Cross???

Good question, tell us what you believe. Modalists believe that there is no such thing as the Trinity, so this question hits at your deepest philosophy. It is a good debating point -- Modalists would say that the Trinity does not work according to scripture, right, Iscool?

[Cronos]

Go ask metmom that — I quoted her words where she said the same, to “butt out”

[boatbums]

Genesis 30:2 And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

Deuteronomy 7:13 And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

Deuteronomy 28:4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep

Deuteronomy 30:9 And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:

Psalm 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Psalm 132:11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

Luke 1:41-42 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

We had a boat one time that I said had "more drawers than Fruit of the Loom". :o)

[aruanan]

Luke 1:41-42 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

We had a boat one time that I said had "more drawers than Fruit of the Loom". :o)

I should have remembered this one from Elizabeth, because it's immediately after that declaration that she made another:

And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.