Posted on 01/15/2012 10:10:29 PM PST by bibletruth
1 Timothy 2:5 ...one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
If there is a debate here then it must follow Bible Scriptures to advocate reproofs, corrections, and instructions on how God the Father has ordained and appointed someone other than HIS SON Christ Jesus as that mediator. In light of 1 Timothy 2:5 - there is no debate here since God's Word clearly points out that that mediator is is Christ Jesus, who has been appointed 2,000 years ago between God and men.
1. that it was a common expression in archaic English,Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
2. that it remains a fairly well-known expression now,
3. that it is at least as common as "fruit of her womb,"
4. that it means the same thing in either case: one's offspring,
5. that it has, in reference to your previous post (you having, perhaps, overlooked the fact that the expression regarding Mary originated in scripture before it ever appeared in a Hail Mary) no connotation whatsoever of either parent having done it all on his or her own.
This is a mystery that we can’t comprehend as finite beings........There are some things we can’t explain.
Why would I do that? I didn’t see her say it.
You keep trying, don't you??? What's the matter??? Don't dare answer the question???
If you didn’t see it, then why are you jumping in to a conversation you don’t know the prior history of?
No, you are mistaken again...It's the Catholic Quadrinity that I am opposed to...You know, that large group of Catholics who have for years been trying to get your pope to make Mary a fourth part of the Trinity...
fair enough. However iscool says that the idea of the trinity is a pagan concept, hence the question “Did God die on the Cross???”. He’s entitled to his own varying beliefs as are we Trinitarians...
-—Except that a huge chunk of the prayers to Mary and the saints are FOR things, not merely asking them to pray for us.-—
Who does this? Catholics? What are the percentages? How do you know?
Certainly there are Catholics whose practices contradict Church teaching. Catholics sin, for example. What does this prove?
—In addition, time spent in prayer to them is time not spent in prayer to God to whom are are commanded by Jesus Himself to pray.—
Do you believe that Catholics don’t pray directly to God? I don’t believe you do. What then is the appropriate percentage of prayer that we should devote to praying to God, and asking others to pray for us? Where is this percentage provided in Scripture?
—God has promised us that He Himself would hear and answer our prayers. What’s the point of going to someone else, when God Almighty, the Creator of the heavens and earth, our loving heavenly Father who knows how to give good gifts to His children, promises us HIMSELF that He will answer HIMSELF.—
We are one Body. Our relationship with God is horizontal as well as vertical. If it’s OK to ask other Christians on earth to pray for us, why not the glorified Christians in heaven?
—This is part of the subtle way that Catholicism teaches that God is a capricious, demanding, judgmental and harsh taskmaster. It teaches that we need to go through someone else because it’s going to be easier for us to get what we want from Mary, for example, than if we went to the Father Himself.—
OK, now you’re making stuff up. You need to back this up with a citation from the Catechism. Remember, you’re talking to an old Catholic, who has studied a little, who is active in the Church, who has travelled quite a bit, and this statement has nothing in common with Church teaching or my personal interaction with fellow Catholics.
—But really? Mary is going to do something for us that God wouldn’t do for us Hinself? She’s going to counter His will?—
Did someone say she would? Again, you’re missing out on our horizontal relationship with the Body of Christ. Asking others here on earth to pray for us is OK, right? And the prayer of a righteous man “availeth much.” So it makes perfect sense to ask the righteous, glorified saints in heaven to pray for us.
The word used there is kyriou which is translated Lord. Look at the different versions of that word used. [http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=Lord&s=References&rc=LEX&rc2=LEX GRK&p=1]
Kuriakos
belonging to the Lord related to the Lord Lord's2
Kurios
he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord the possessor and disposer of a thing the owner; one who has control of the person, the master in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master this title is given to: God, the Messiah Lord of lords2, Lord's12, lords1, master38, master's3, masters8, masters'1, owner6, owners1, sir11, sirs1
Kurieuo
to be lord of, to rule, have dominion over of things and forces to exercise influence upon, to have power over Lord of1, lords1
To try to make people think that she was saying “mother of my God” is disingenuous at best. If she had truly meant God she would have used some form of Theos. I haven’t seen that verse used by the RCC for their justification but if they do its pure deceit. There is special condemnation throughout scripture for those who lead people astray with that type of deceit. I would suggest that verse not be used to lead people to a false interpretation.
One doesn’t need to know prior history of a comment like that.
Wow.
Go and ask her why she said that in the first place. I just copied her words.
Well, let’s look at one example.
Prayer of Pope Pius XII
In Honor of the Immaculate Conception
http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm
Prayer of Pope Pius XII
Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty, and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O Immaculate Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Mary, confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.
Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite misery, we admire and praise the peerless richness of sublime gifts with which God has filled you, above every other mere creature, from the first moment of your conception until the day on which, after your assumption into heaven, He crowned you Queen of the Universe.
O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O fragrant Lily of all holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume! O Conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell!
O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cry which rises up from every heart. Bend tenderly over our aching wounds. Convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and oppressed, comfort the poor and humble, quench hatreds, sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity in youth, protect the holy Church, make all men feel the attraction of Christian goodness. In your name, resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that they are brothers, and that the nations are members of one family, upon which may there shine forth the sun of a universal and sincere peace.
Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people! Amen.
maybe we should break it down. Let’s take the prayer of Prayer of Pope Pius XII. [http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm]
I’ll use just the bolded excerpts from the prayer.
we cast ourselves into your arms
1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. (When did we need to replace God with Mary?)
confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.
Hebrews 4:15-16 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (once again Catholics replacing Christ with Mary)
O crystal fountain of faith
Romans 12:3 according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. or "a measure of faith." (but Mary is the “fountain of faith” for Catholics)
Lily of all holiness
1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God. (for Catholics however, “all holiness” is given to Mary)
Conqueress of evil and death
Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. (but Catholics claim it was Mary who conquered death)
Convert the wicked
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; (Catholics have even replaced the Holy Spirit with Mary)
Statement by catholic Bishop Liqouri “.......We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus.....” She...is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help” (Mary is our salvation, Life, Hope, Counsel, Refuge, and Help? I thought Jesus was.) Need I go on? Catholics have replaced virtually every attribute and working of God and given that to Mary in their worship.
Play those silly “she did it first” games if you want but I’m out of it.
You might want to come up with some proof for that false statement...
No--You are expanding it to where it should not go.
Asking others here on earth to pray for us is OK, right?
Yes. They're alive.
And the prayer of a righteous man “availeth much.”
Yes it does.
So it makes perfect sense to ask the righteous, glorified saints in heaven to pray for us.
No it doesn't. You are again extrapolating beyond the reasonable.
Deu 18:10Scripture says that we should not try to converse with those who have already graduated from this life. Christ did not repeal this prohibition, therefore it is still in force.
Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,
Deu 18:11
or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.
Deu 18:12
Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.
We should not pray to Mary.
Unbelievable...
Are the glorified saints in heaven dead?
Is asking the saints in heaven to pray for us the same thing as conjuring spirits?
In Revelation 5:8, the saints in heaven offer our prayers to God.
Where did I say that? Post number please....
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