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Locked on 03/05/2012 8:20:32 PM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish behavior |
Posted on 02/14/2012 4:00:49 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
Too true.
Nevertheless, the enemy would love us to throw out the baby with the bath water.
My curiosity would be . . .
what % of such transitions, changes, shifts on the part of how many people
are psychological, emotional, sociological
vs
theological, spiritual.
*************
Back in the day--
I was plodding along with low expectations for the traditional American denominational way of "easy (western) Christianity" --
You know... the four-speed four-door well-marked high-speed expressway to Heaven...
...singing and smiling and picnicking at my leisure along the way...
**********
Our mutual friend sent me home from a conference with a very personal prayer assignment-- and when God answered my heart-cry in that season... It was Christ's calling on my life...
I knew the remainder of my faith journey would require a steep climb--not an easy path; with many risks-- no crowded expressways... no picnic basket...
I also learned that the long distance between "calling" and "commission" was the high road of maturity in Christ's character--and the fruit and power of the Holy Spirit--
Yup... ruined...
...And I wouldn't have it any other way.
Hope this explains...
His grace and peace be with you every step of the way!
So are the Spiritual Gifts actually active today or not? All that I have ever witnessed, especially by these Charismatic types, have always been emotional frauds. They celebrate false prophets and false prophecy, and they hate you when you challenge them.
My conclusion, as a result of all of this, was “blessed are they who have not seen, and yet still believed”. They are focused on “seeing” God, but not on serving Him.
So what is the conclusion here regarding spiritual gifts? Is such a thing as prophecy, healing, or whatnot, active in this day and age? I tend to think not.
Understand.
Congrats. Congrats.
LUB
Joel
Acts 2
I Cor 12-14
should answer such questions for anyone used to taking God at His Word . . .
Given the Power of Holy Spirit, certainly satan has a huge investment in counterfeiting and tarnishing the real thing.
Those who PRESS-IN to God personally know the validity.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
He’s also not about to leave satan with all the supernatural manifestations in this END TIMES period.
However, He tends to do things HIS WAY, AND HIS TIMING and in contexts of His choosing.
And, He seems to like to slice catty wumpus across mortals prissy expectations.
**I have a much greater insight into spiritual truth, with a much greater illumination and understanding into the things of God.**
Has this greater illumination and understanding led you to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins? That’s how people’s sins are remitted according to Jesus and his ordained apostles.
I was raised in a rural, bible study intense, protestant church with much in common with southern baptists, except for sprinkling vs immersion (and like baptists, it was just ‘an outward sign of an inward cleasing’, which is about as anti Acts 2:38 as one can get). Yet, I knew there had to be more to believing; an experience had to be out there. But, my leaders could not testify of something they had yet to experience themselves.
So when I saw the Acts 2 message, and how it culminated in vs 38 and 39, I knew that it was truth, and I had been missing it.
It’s the fulfilling of Jesus command, just as he had told Nicodemas to be born of the water and the Spirit. Just as the Lord said “He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved, and he that believeth not shall be damned” (They that don’t believe in His baptism are also unbelievers).
It’s strait and it is narrow and few there be that find it.
Lord bless
quix, am I guilty of “haughty judgment” ? Is that what you are saying? Are we not to be Bereans?
And sadly, that's what happens. Because of people like that and the excesses done, people then react by rejecting all the gifts or some of them. There's very little balance and what I've noticed is that the number of people who are really familiar with how the gifts are to be exercised as laid out in 1 Corinthians 12 & 14 are precious few.
Then what gifts ought to be asked for, and how does one go about asking?
**Given the Power of Holy Spirit, certainly satan has a huge investment in counterfeiting and tarnishing the real thing.**
And the devil was most likely busy before sundown on Pentecost, transforming himself into ‘an angel of light’. Paul spoke of it as a present tense threat...”Satan...IS transformed..”.
He’s tireless, even using our ‘fearless leader’ (cough) to quote Jesus concerning the sharing with others, yet still endorsing the killing of the unborn. Satan’s had thousands of years to trick man in every way imaginable. Thankfully his time is about up.
We should “Desire all of the spiritual gifts”, but that also involves truly understanding them, for that is where much of the spiritual confusion comes from, an inadequate understanding of the nature of spiritual gifts as the New Testament defines them.Furthermore, we should “desire spiritual gifts”not so much as individual properties but for the edification of the Body.
I tend to think that they are active in this day and age but not nearly to the degree that many claim.
The Pentecostal/Charismatic movement is shallow. It pays too much attention to its own traditions and not enough to Scripture, too much to the Holy Spirit and not enough about Jesus, too much on the gifts and not enough on the fruit, too much about manifesting power and gifts and not enough manifesting Christ, too much on what they can get out of it in experience and not enough on how they can serve others and lead them to Christ.
HIMSELF
by A. B. Simpson
Once it was the blessing, Now it is the Lord;
Once it was the feeling, Now it is His Word.
Once His gifts I wanted, Now the Giver own;
Once I sought for healing, Now Himself alone.
Once ‘twas painful trying, Now ‘tis perfect trust;
Once a half salvation, Now the uttermost.
Once ‘twas ceaseless holding, Now He holds me fast;
Once ‘twas constant drifting, Now my anchor’s cast.
Once ‘twas busy planning, Now ‘tis trustful prayer;
Once ‘twas anxious caring, Now He has the care.
Once ‘twas what I wanted, Now what Jesus says;
Once ‘twas constant asking, Now ‘tis ceaseless praise.
Once it was my working, His it hence shall be;
Once I tried to use Him, Now He uses me.
Once the power I wanted, Now the Mighty One;
Once for self I labored, Now for Him alone.
Once I hoped in Jesus, Now I know He’s mine;
Once my lamps were dying, Now they brightly shine.
Once for death I waited, Now His coming hail;
And my hopes are anchored, Safe within the vail.
There is no command in Scripture anywhere that I can think of where the gifts are to be asked for.
1 Corinthians 12:7-11 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
What gifts each believer is to receive is the HOLY SPIRIT'S choice, not ours.
That is where I see the MAJOR problem in the Pentecostal movement, the huge emphasis on tongues, the least of the gifts, and its misapplication and use.
“People are too busy seeking the Spirit, the power, the healing, tongues, whatever manifestation du jour they hear about and not seeking Christ alone, the author and finisher of our faith.”
Yes, some folks are just like Simon Magus, except they don’t even have the courtesy of offering a bribe.
That link about ‘soaking anointing’ was disturbing.
That was one of my major problems with them as well. I suspect that tongues is emphasized because it is the easiest one to fake, and because they claim that it doesn’t have to be an actual Earthly language.
I do see lots of scripture in favor of spiritual gifts being still active, and not ceasing; however, I just don’t think they’re the real deal. I also suspect a great deal of gifts... are gifts like wisdom, ability to teach the Gospel, things of that nature. Things that aren’t flashy like, for example, calling fire down form heaven, but just as valid as the gifts of prophecy or any of the ones they covet.
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