Rome excommunicates four Ukrainian bishops

Former monks of the Basilian Order of St. Josaphat who appointed themselves bishops of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in 2008 have been excommunicated for disobedience

They appointed themselves bishops of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in 2008. After trying to be recognized by the Ukrainian state as a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Orthodox Church, four former monks of the Basilian Order of St. Josaphat, a Ukrainian, Slovak and two Czechs have been excommunicated. Their relations with the Vatican deteriorated four years ago

What the article does NOT state is how they “made” themselves bishops. Did they go to an Orthodox, Thuc-line or (carefully chosen) Old Catholic bishop for orders? If not, there is not even a pretended claim to Apostolic Succession.

I saw that too. I remembered that bishops have the authority to ordain priests to become bishops. The Orthodoxies HAVE retained their correct line of authority and thus retained THEIR union with Rome when it comes to ordaining priests and bishops that are still true priests and bishops.
If they were only priests, they did NOT have any authority to ordain themselves bishops. I didn't see anything about that. However, it's early in the morning and I might have erred.

Obvioulsy, Protestants DIDN'T keep the true/correct line of authority and thus did NOT retain its union with Rome.

I only know this because I asked the same question repeatedly on web sites and to priests..for years. I always got the same answer, so I assumed it was the correct one.

And yet they won’t discipline the pro-abort pols here in America.

I don't assume to know what every or any bishop in America has done or said to any/every pro-abort pol in our total political scene, Catholic or not.
I don't THINK (and I might be wrong here) that any discipline would be public.
I don't assume that there HASN'T been any discipline administered.
I don't assume to know about the outcome of any said discipline. I can't believe that any pro-abort pol would even admit to being disciplined by his/her bishop. Also, would bishops of Protestant faiths discipline their flock? I don't know.

Ah me, the day of public humiliation in the STOCKS is past, isn't it? Now THERE was a public humiliation worth its salt. :o)

Did they go to an Orthodox, Thuc-line or (carefully chosen) Old Catholic bishop for orders? If not, there is not even a pretended claim to Apostolic Succession. . . . .

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The thing is, this only makes a difference to Roman Catholics. While Protestants claim to be a part of the Universal Church (Catholic) their leaders were excommunicated centuries ago and according to Catholic Church doctrines have no part of the linage of the Apostolic Succession.

Protestants would say that the Roman Catholics lost their authority centuries ago from corruption.

If you believe that the Roman Catholic Church is dead, evil etc. then why would you want to claim to be a part of it the way Protestants do?

Leaders of some churches that I have spoken to say they get their authority from “The Word” and don’t need Apostolic authority. Others have told me they get their authority from “The Sprit” which has anointed them.

I feel it is impossible to judge another persons religions beliefs except by their works. If a person does evil he is probably evil. If a person does good he is probably good. In either case it is not my job to judge.

These Bishops excommunicated themselves by their actions. I suspect they don’t care. Luther didn’t care that he was excommunicated, he kept right on truckin. If their church was wrong why would they still want to be a part of it?

So many people here judge others as “Christian” or “Non-Christian”, on whether or not they claim to be a part of the Roman Catholic Church or it’s renegade off shoots.

Are these break-a-way Bishops still Catholic? Are they even still Christians. If being excommunicated makes you non-Christian then all of Protestantism is non-Christian.

I think, and I realize it isn’t important to anybody else what I think, I know that, but I think if the “bishops” think they are Christian, let them think it, it is not for me to judge.

The thing is, this only makes a difference to Roman Catholics.

Apostolic Succession is important for Catholics, but also for Orthodox, "Old Catholics", some Anglicans and I imagine a number of others such as Coptics and Armenians.

The question has to do with the validity of the ordination, which has to do with both form and matter, which is why the Catholic Church recognizes Eastern Orthodox bishops, as we know they have a valid line of succession, and used the correct form and matter for ordination. Most Protestant groups don't bother with bishops at all. Of those that do, most of them make a mere organizational appointment or self-appointment, no succession to the Apostles, and therefore to Christ.

The Anglicans, as usual, are in between. They had maintained valid succession, but Pope Leo XIII determined that an invalid ordination formula was in use for 100 years, wiping out the line. Some Anglicans have been known to be ordained by Orthodox for that reason. The Church has also ruled that the Thuc line (validly ordained bishop [also brother of President Diem of Vietnam] who was rather free with his ordinations in the end) are invalid, due to the likely insanity of Bishop Thuc (inability to form proper intent).

The Roman Catholic Church had allowed for validity of the Old Catholics, despite the fact that they are practically a bishop factory. However, now that they are pretending to ordain women, and have changed a number of other things, their status is questionable at best.

Groups considered in schism or other degrees of separation that have validly ordained bishops and use proper form and matter (e.g. SSPX) have valid ordinations. Excommunication does not remove the ordination, as it is an indelible mark on the soul. Validity of the ordination is not affected by formal union with the Church.

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