Posted on 04/22/2012 11:23:32 AM PDT by NYer
Still no “queen of heave” other than pagan.
That is not what I said and you know it .
And here is the answer God gave Samuel when the children of Israel asked for a king to rule over them like the rest of the nations.
1Sa 8:4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
1Sa 8:5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
1Sa 8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
1Sa 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
1Sa 8:10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
1Sa 8:11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
1Sa 8:12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
1Sa 8:13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.
1Sa 8:14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.
1Sa 8:15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
1Sa 8:16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.
1Sa 8:17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
1Sa 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
1Sa 8:19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
1Sa 8:20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.
1Sa 8:21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the LORD.
1Sa 8:22 And the LORD said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad" (John 8:56) Moses as well!
"So in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others" (Romans 12:5)
God is the God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob. He is he God of all who believe in Him, past, present, and future, ALL THE SAINTS. How can you possibly say they are dead? "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken." (Mark 12:27)
You wrote:
“Still no “queen of heave” other than pagan.”
Mary isn’t a pagan.
Their bodies are clearly dead!
We are expressly forbidden to contact the dead.
“You refer to occultic spirituality, seances, and such.”
No I don’t. You are trying to read my mind. I referred to a very establish part of the basic Christian Creed, the Communion of Saint. THAT is what I referred to. You attempt to play mind reader is against the rules. But you knew that, right?
“Their bodies are clearly dead!”
Their immortal soul is not dead, and if they died in a State of Grace and are in Heaven, they are part of the Christian Community of Saints that you appear to deny exists.
-—. Saul was anointed king in God’s name by Samuel. I don’t think God was offended by this institution.
really????????????????——
8-) Read my post again.”This institution” is referring to Solomon’s exaltation of the Gebirah, or Queen Mother.
—— Exactly so. It was common in kingdoms not only of the Middle East, but in Europe as well. Look at the honour given to Queen Elizabeth’s mother, for instance. She was always treated with the utmost respect, as much as or more than Queen Elizabeth and far more than Jug Ear Charlie.——
Absolutely.
And she isn’t the queen of heaven either. The “queen of heaven” concept is a pagan concept never once sanctioned by any teaching of scripture.
I don't know you very well, so I don't have a clear idea of what we consider common ground, and what we don't. Help me out here.
Do you believe in the Trinity? In the Communion of Saints? Do you believe we are members of the Body of Christ?
That'll help me understand where you're coming from.
>> “You think Catholics communicare with dead bodies??” <<
Childish strawman.
Communicating with the dead, necromancy, is forbidden. Its a serious sin, and a habit that leads straight to the lake of fire. The spirits of the dead are not available for communication, and all attempts are answered by the fallen ones.
You wrote:
“And she isn’t the queen of heaven either.”
Actually she is the queen of heaven.
“The “queen of heaven” concept is a pagan concept never once sanctioned by any teaching of scripture.”
False. Mary as queen of heaven is not remotely of pagan origin. Also, it is in Rev. 12, and it doesn’t need explicit mention in scripture anyway since the Bible was never intended by God to hold all truths.
and of course you could show where the apostles taught that or at least instituting the office of “queen of heaven”.
>>Also, it is in Rev. 12<<
So you’re saying that the woman in Revelation 12 is Mary? If it is you would also admit that Mary returns to earth to be tormented once again as it says of the woman in Revelation 12:
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
-—So what ? He also bowed downed and build high places (temples) to the gods his wives worshiped-—
Because a president is sinful, does that mean his office is invalid or void? Was Solomon’s office void? The queen’s? The queen mother’s?
These passages simply point out the historical fact that the office of the queen mother, or “Gebirah,” was more exalted than that of the queen.
-—You do know that Solomon is not in Jesus lineage don’t you? His kingdom was taken away from him and he died in apostasy worshiping devils.——
Was not Solomon the king of the House of David, as is Jesus?
“To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.” -—Rev 3:7
If Jesus is the King of the eternal House of David (He holds the key of David (see also Isaiah 22)), then His mother, Mary, is His Queen Mother, the queen of the eternal House of David, or the Queen of Heaven.
“A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” -—Rev 12
-—You also said this .... which is what I quoted and answered before.
Saul was anointed king in God’s name by Samuel. I don’t think God was offended by this institution.
YES HE WAS OFFENDED THAT THEY REJECTED HIM.-—
Yes. Nevertheless, God granted their request, which fell within His providential plan.
“When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you and have taken possession of it and settled in it, and you say, “Let us set a king over us like all the nations around us,” 15 be sure to appoint over you a king the LORD your God chooses. He must be from among your fellow Israelites. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not an Israelite.”-—Deut 17:14-15
God would not be offended by the office of the queen mother, or “Gebirah,” any more than He was offended by their request for an earthly king, which He granted, despite their earthly motivation.
More on the “Kingdom of David” and “The Kingdom of God.”
http://books.google.com/books?id=vJ-fd4hQQJ0C&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=christ+kingdom+of+david+hahn&source=bl&ots=RbjLHCZ6ng&sig=5wMYMzaPJ1DM_N9lCwy52jaLg34&hl=en&sa=X&ei=d0CZT7yFJ6eD6AHvw8TTBg&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA
You admit it grieves HIM yet you keep saying it is ok because someone else did it .
That’s the same kind of reasoning that got Adam kicked out of the garden .
-—You admit it grieves HIM yet you keep saying it is ok because someone else did it .——
I must have missed that.
There is nothing intrinsically evil to a kingdom as a form of government. The Israelites erred in establishing their kingdom because of their motivation —to be like the other nations.
Nevertheless, the Davidic kingdom was part of God’s providential plan: the kingdom of God spoken of in the New Testament is synonymous with the eternal Davidic Kingdom, of which Jesus is the Head.
Rejection of the Davidic kingdom is a rejection of the Kingdom of God.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.