On Fifteen Years a Catholic ("How can you join a church that tells you how to think?")

Catholic World Report ^ | April 20, 2012 | Carl Olson

[vladimir998]

When anti-Catholics are caught in dishonesty they routinely try to divert the conversation to something else.

This is what you posted that was deceptively cut:

“Statement by catholic Bishop Liqouri “.......We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus.....” She...is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help”

So, it was Ligouri, not Pius XII.

Care to try again? Was it you or an anti-Catholic website that deceptively cut the Ligouri quotes? No more diversions. Just be honest in your answer. That shouldn’t be hard, right?

[CynicalBear]

Does this help you out slick?

“We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus. She...is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help” (The Glories of Mary by Bishop Alphonse de Ligouri (Brooklyn: Redemptorist Fathers, pp. 254, 257).

By the way. I know Catholics claim they don’t pray to Mary right?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s1c2a2.htm

2675 Beginning with Mary’s unique cooperation with the working of the Holy Spirit, the Churches developed their prayer to the holy Mother of God, centering it on the person of Christ manifested in his mysteries. In countless hymns and antiphons expressing this prayer, two movements usually alternate with one another: the first “magnifies” the Lord for the “great things” he did for his lowly servant and through her for all human beings29 the second entrusts the supplications and praises of the children of God to the Mother of Jesus, because she now knows the humanity which, in her, the Son of God espoused.

2676 This twofold movement of prayer to Mary has found a privileged expression in the Ave Maria:

2679 Mary is the perfect Orans (pray-er), a figure of the Church. When we pray to her, we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends his Son to save all men. Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus' mother into our homes, for she has become the mother of all the living. We can pray with and to her. The prayer of the Church is sustained by the prayer of Mary and united with it in hope.

I suppose I should ask, is http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s1c2a2.htm one of those “anti-Catholic” websites?

[CynicalBear]

>> satan had know idea that Christ was God incarnate. To think otherwise is heretical!<<

OOoooooo! This ought to be good. Satan didn’t know ey? What say you smvoice? Satan stands in heaven accusing the faithful, he was with God in the beginning but doesn’t know that Jesus is God?

[narses]

Again the odd views of a poster who claims that Catholics are idolaters, that those who celebrate Easter and Christmas are pagans and who claims that the idea of church on Sunday is a man made tradition and apparently not either Christian or Biblical. Given that this is the point of view from which you view the world, why should anyone pay attention to your odd, often incomplete and often flat out wrong opinions?

[Natural Law]

"which web sites did I “choose as corroboration” that use Strongs? For that matter, which websites did I choose period?"

Both www.biblestudytools.com and www.studylight.org rely on Strong's Concordance. Scrubbing a faulty source through a questionable site doesn't rehabilitate it.

[narses]

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

[CynicalBear]

It’s interesting to me that when Catholics can’t dispute the facts they try to impugn a site to deflect regardless of whether information came from that site or not. They don’t discuss the issue but just try to deflect.

[Natural Law]

"I know Catholics claim they don’t pray to Mary right?"

I'm not aware of any Catholic who denies praying to her, I pray to her every day. We don't worship her.

[Natural Law]

"It’s interesting to me that when Catholics can’t dispute the facts they try to impugn a site to deflect regardless of whether information came from that site or not."

Please reread this thread. I disputed your contention that Jesus rebuked Mary and said that Jael was above Her. You countered with a flawed translation of menounge and used two suspect websites that both relied on Strong's as your substantiation.

[smvoice]

Are you serious?

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Gen. 3:15. Satan knew it was coming. He knew it from the moment Eve ate the fruit of the tree God had forbidden. What do you think the Bible is about? Satan's attempt to thwart God's curse that was placed upon him. Don't you get it? The moment Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, satan thought he had won. This world was his. The fall had taken place. Until God gave him the news that his time was limited, he was doomed, and at some point, the seed of the woman would result in his destruction. And his attempts to keep the seed of the woman from bruising his head. (A fatal blow, the end, satan loses).

Of course, you would have to believe Genesis to understand this. And if I'm not mistaken, the RCC doesn't. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Celtic Cross]

Is English your first language? It means the same thing! The words of Hebrews are more flowery but I’d think anyone with the slightest reading comprehension ability would be able to see that they are one and the same, meaning-wise.

[mitch5501]

"The moment Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, satan thought he had won. This world was his. The fall had taken place"

"And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it." (Luke 4:5,6)

[Celtic Cross]

Ping to #178 and #182.

I thought same calling was against the rules here? Viz "slick?"

[Religion Moderator]

CynicalBear, do not refer to another poster as "slick" etc. - that is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[Celtic Cross]

Yes, the Catholic Church believes Genesis. I don't know why you'd think otherwise.

Its in every version of the bible endorsed by the Church that I know of.

[vladimir998]

My questions still stand:

So, which is it? Did you deceptively cut the Ligouri quote or did you simply mindlessly lift the quote from an anti-Catholic website that had deceptively cut it? No more diversions now. Just be honest in your answer. That shouldn’t be hard, right?

[vladimir998]

“It’s interesting to me that when Catholics can’t dispute the facts they try to impugn a site to deflect regardless of whether information came from that site or not.”

It’s interesting to me that when anti-Catholics can’t dispute the facts they make things up or mindlessly borrow made up things from anti-Catholic websites.

“They don’t discuss the issue but just try to deflect.”

The anti-Catholics don’t admit their frauds. They just deflect.

[Lera]

Mohammed [məʊˈhæmɪd], Muhammad
n
(Biographies / Mohammed (?570-632) M, Arab, RELIGION: prophet, RELIGION: founder of Islam) ?570-632 ad,
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Mohammed

[Lera]

My questions still stand: So, which is it? Did you deceptively cut the Ligouri quote or did you simply mindlessly lift the quote from an anti-Catholic website that had deceptively cut it? No more diversions now. Just be honest in your answer. That shouldn’t be hard, right?

He has the book . I gave him Ligouri's book myself so don't accuse him of going to any anti catholic site . He has the entire book and the book is to old for copyright so he can post lots of it straight from the book .
The only thing mindless about it is the trash that is in the book that so many people believe . Oh and by the way the book has a stamp of approval from the catholic church too

Your accusing him of lifting stuff off of anti catholic sites sounds an awful lot like projection to me .

[vladimir998]

You wrote: “Mohamed”

I know it can be “Muhammad” (as I wrote), or “Mohammed” as was commonly used years ago. It just IS NOT “Mohamed” - and that’s exactly what you wrote.

Not only were you wrong, but then you compounded your error by trying to justify it with evidence that actually showed you were wrong in the first place. Classic. Enjoy. It’s just going to go down hill for you from here on out.