Posted on 06/07/2014 11:13:33 AM PDT by Salvation
He that believeth in me, as the scripture saith, Out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (John 7:38)
There is no such scripture. One can find allusions or approximations, but there is no direct match with anything known to us, in the canonized scripture nor in the Hebrew or Greek devotional literature known to us.
Mostly quotes are from the Psalms, because the Psalms are meant to be sung and are very memorable.
The writings of Paul for the most part preceded the creation of the Gospels. So he had nothing to quote from written text about Jesus. On the other hand, Paul's meeting with Jesus contains a quote, but it is recorded by Luke and not by Paul:
[4] And falling on the ground, he heard a voice saying to him: Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? [5] Who said: Who art thou, Lord? And he: I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. It is hard for thee to kick against the goad. [6] And he trembling and astonished, said: Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? [7] And the Lord said to him: Arise, and go into the city, and there it shall be told thee what thou must do. (Acts 9)
St. Luke wrote the Acts. But this is not Luke's memory, -- he was most certainly not with Paul on the road to Damascus. Similar to the conversation of Mary with Archangel Gabriel, and the Magnificat, and the story of Jesus found in the temple, Luke wrote these because Paul, and Mary, told Luke what to write.
Aside from the Road to Damascus pericope, St. Paul made only an oblique reference to his mystical conversations with Jesus:
according to revelation, the mystery has been made known to me (Eph. 3:3)
the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. [12] For neither did I receive it of man, nor did I learn it; but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Gal. 1:11-12)
It could be that Paul is quoting from Jesus revealing to him the Christian doctrine more than only in 1 Corinthians 11, but we would not know it because the Revelation of St. Paul has never been written by St. Paul.
In short, the obsession with scripture quotes is a modern (since 1500 or so) phenomenon. The Early Church quoted liberally, rarely attributed quotes, and did not distinguish between canonized scripture, other books, and oral communication. The question "Why did Paul not quote Jesus more than once in Corinthians 11" is a product of modern mentality and betrays little familiarity with the life and methods of the Holy Church.
To me, your post speaks loudly of the doctrine of Holy Tradition — receiving information from another person — face to face.
God bless.
At this point in time what difference does it make?
You misunderstand - I know the article is NOT claiming a heresy - the article is warning ABOUT the heresy which I have seen make the rounds and devastate churches and individual fellowships.
The article is warning about the same thing I am. I’m just concurring with the article and putting an exclamation on it.
For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes. - I Corinthians 11:23-26
There is no such scripture. One can find allusions or approximations, but there is no direct match with anything known to us, in the canonized scripture nor in the Hebrew or Greek devotional literature known to us.
This is not a quote of OT scripture nor was it intended to be...
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said,
The scripture has talked about those that believe on Jesus Christ...That's the end of that statement...And then to that person who the scripture referenced about believing;
out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Out of that believer's belly will flow rivers of water...It is not an OT revelation...It is a NT revelation...
Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Good article, except for the final words.
“Historical Jesus” raise some red flags, partly because the “quest for the historical Jesus” has led many 20th century theologians into a path of unbelief; partly because the phrase implies an occultism or gnosticism regarding revelation not contained in Scripture....that there is an “historic Jesus” quite apart and distinct from what has been Revealed.
I have an excellent refutation point for those who try to bring up any “Jesus vs. Paul” nonsense-
“But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.”
Christ discussing Paul in Acts 9:15
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+9%3A15&version=ESVUK
John 7:38 is a paraphrase, not a quote. Read Isaiah 12:3 and Zechariah 14:8 for starters.
There is no such scripture
Anyway, here from Acts 20:35 is an account of Paul quoting Jesus:
In all things I have shown you that by so toiling one must help the weak, remembering the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, `It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”
Those “seekers” of the historic Jesus that reject Flavius Josephus and Tacitus were looking for reasons for rejection to begin with.
Who is saying that Christ said that. Can’t take it out of context, right?
Looking it up.
Who is saying that Christ said that. Can’t take it out of context, right?
Looking it up.
Acts 9
8 Saul arose from the ground; and when his eyes were opened, he could see nothing; so they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus.
9 And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.
10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Anani'as. The Lord said to him in a vision, "Anani'as." And he said, "Here I am, Lord."
11 And the Lord said to him, "Rise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for a man of Tarsus named Saul; for behold, he is praying,
12 and he has seen a man named Anani'as come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight."
13 But Anani'as answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to thy saints at Jerusalem;
14 and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call upon thy name."
15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name."
17 So Anani'as departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized,
19 and took food and was strengthened. For several days he was with the disciples at Damascus.
20 And in the synagogues immediately he proclaimed Jesus, saying, "He is the Son of God."
I never said that Christ was not speaking to Ananias in Acts 9:15-16. I said that Christ was speaking ABOUT Paul(as His chosen instrument to preach to the Gentiles, kings and sons of Israel). In this case, He was speaking about Paul to Ananias as you correctly stated.
I do not see the word “about” in your quote, but rather Jessy vs. Paul.
I understand exactly what you’re talking about, as a relative of mine is dabbling in the Hebrew Roots movement. I refuse to be drawn away from the Gospel, but I worry about others.
Recheck it. I said Christ discussing Paul in Acts 9:15.
I like to bring it up when folks(usually liberals) try to pit Jesus against Paul by saying things like “I follow Christ, not Paul!” Of course, if they truly followed Christ then wouldn’t they want to learn from the man that Christ specifically said was His chosen instrument after He had ascended into Heaven?
It’s a good line to bring up, but I think it always needs to be referenced to the uneasiness of Ananias and the Lord’s quote about Paul to him — including the bit about suffering.
If anyone suffered a lot it was St. Paul.
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