This is a common mistake, particularly when one desires to adhere to one’s beliefs. This is classic eisegesis. Paradise is not Heaven. Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, had and has the choice of the proper words. He chose ‘paradise’ for the thief on the cross, not ‘heaven’... If I were to postulate on what ‘paradise’ is I’d suggest one of the Heavens spoken of by Paul. Remember that Paul’s experience is unclear and whether it was a physical or spiritual one is irrelevant. Paradise as described in Revelations sounds like a place higher than earth, but lower than Heaven, much like the Garden of Eden was.

We know wherever Jesus was that day, there too was the thief...therefore...

"we now need to locate Paradise. In II Corinthians 12:1-5, Paul speaks of one whom he knew who had marvelous visions and revelations from the Lord. In a vision he was "caught up to the third heaven"—God's throne! "He was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter." Paradise, then, is located in the presence of God's throne."

"In various passages, the Bible describes Paradise. Revelation 2:7 says, "To him that overcometh, to him will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God" (American Standard Version). Observe that the tree of life is in the Paradise of God."

"Revelation 22:1-2 refer to "the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God" (Revelation 21:2, ASV). In this city, we find "a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the midst of the street thereof. And on this side of the river and on that was the tree of life. . . ." (ASV). The New Jerusalem contains the tree of life. In the New Jerusalem, then, is the Paradise of God."
http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BQA/k/248/Did-Thief-on-Cross-Go-Heaven-with-Jesus-Christ-Luke-2343.htm)

Have you ever heard or sung the Robert Robinson and John Wyeth's hymn hymn, Come Thou Font of Every Blessing? Here's Sarah Noelle's version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3w9nvXuVnk Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it, Prone to leave the God I love;

Why, yes I have...

In fact, 3 plus years ago, LDSLiving.Com had a Mormon "fave hymn" contest...and, per the Mormon mag, "Come, Thou Fount was the most requested write-in hymn from round one of voting..."
{A&E} 'Favoritest' Hymn of All Winner! [Two Fave Lds Hymns penned by Baptists!]

I posted that article in an FR thread about three years ago...and pointed out -- surprise, surprise -- that the two most "fave" Mormon hymns (one of those being Come, Thou Fount were written by Baptists!!!

I then added in the thread this link for Robinson: Robert Robinson (Baptist)

1010rd: "Most apostasy occurs for 'good' human reasons."

Did you REALLY just say that? REALLY?

(Yeah, folks. We apparently have an apologist for apostasy, attempting to make light of it by dismissing the outright rebelliousness of REAL apostasy)

Now why would such a poster do that?

(Well ask him for his reasonings here)

However, I DO know that if I was a Mormon...
...And claimed that 100% of the founding fathers of this country were "apostates"
-- as Mormon doctrine teaches...
...And that the Christian hymn-writers who constructed 53% of the hymns within the Mormon hymnal (190 of 358) -- were likewise surprisingly written off as "apostates"...
...well, hey...
... ya just GOTTA somehow "soften" the harsh labeling that Joseph Smith unloaded upon Christians and the Christian denominations...
You know what I mean?

I mean...here...
...in THE MOST important section of peculiar Mormon "scripture" (referenced as their "first vision")... ...We find in this so-called "vision"...
...Joseph Smith CLAIMING these unnamed entities appeared to him, AND condemned Christians as follows:

(Smith had gone) "to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that ALL were wrong) and which I should join. 19 I was answered that I must join NONE of them, for they were ALL wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that ALL their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were ALL corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
Mormon 'scriptural' source: Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith History - chapter 1

Now Mormonism labels this passage as absolute "scripture" for them!

Don't ya just love these Mormons? (Like 1010RD)

On the one hand, Mormonism bashes us Christians as "apostates"...
...even beloved hymn-writers like Baptist hymn-writer Robert Robinson...
...YET Mormonism is so "inclusive" that they ensured that over HALF of their Mormon hymnal was written by us "apostates"...! (Woo-hoo!)

(Christians...could you imagine over HALF of your hymnals being written by people your leaders have deemed to be "apostates?")

After all, concludes 1010RD, "Most apostasy" -- including those hymn-writers like Robinson -- occurred "for 'good' human reasons."

Don't ya just feel all bubbly inside?

REQUIRED. See that word? Do YOU SEE THE WORD “required”?

Once or twice...

Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

**Respond to my post**

I have, and will again.

**You also did not deal with your major impediment: that if we are saved by our merits or works, it is not by grace, because grace is not provided as debt for labor provided or for the merits of an individual. It is given gratuitously.**
**This mercy is explicitly without any notice of man’s merits, whether foreseen or possible, but entirely on the mercy of God alone.**

You seem to think I don’t understand free, undeserved, gifts from God. I pointed out God’s gift to Abraham and his obedience, but I offer you another example:

You know the parable of the wedding (Matt. 22:1-14), where FINALLY the king has found guests that accept the invitation. These guests know they’ve been invited because a messenger bid them to come. And, since it is a wedding, they know that a wedding garment is appropriate. Of course, you know that the one guest shows up without a wedding garment.

I know you are also aware of the marriage of the Lamb (Rev. 19:7-9), and the ‘fine linen’, which ‘the righteousness of the saints’ (righteousness that is imputed by the blood of Christ).

Here is the grace of God:

He, by messenger, invites you to the wedding. You can’t earn the invite. It’s a gift. You already knew that you would need a wedding garment when attending a wedding. But to this wedding, you can’t make, rent, or buy a wedding garment that is good enough. No problem, for the host has sent the wedding garment with his messenger.

There you have it. Free invite to the wedding, with a free wedding garment supplied.

NOW, your part. You HAVE to put it on and wear it. You can’t regard it as important, but not necessary. It is MANDATORY.

Paul, writing to the saints at Galatia, said, “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” Gal. 3:27

My first 28 yrs were as a Calvinist. This is basically the salvation message they preach: Hear the messenger, accept the invite, and know that the wedding garment is automatically put on when one utters outloud an acceptance of the invite.

The Spirit is the ‘chariot’ that gets you there (the power of the resurrection). Calvinists (and others) teach that the ‘chariot is there even though you can’t hear it.
But, Jesus Christ says that you WILL hear it.

Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ IS for the remission of sins...........because he said so.

In other words, the mercy of God is not enough if the will of man does not go with it. Augustine refutes this here in his analysis of Rom 9:16:

“And further, should any one be inclined to boast, not indeed of his works, but of the freedom of his will, as if the first merit belonged to him, this very liberty of good action being given to him as a reward he had earned, let him listen to this same preacher of grace, when he says: “For it is God which works in you, both to will and to do of His own good pleasure;” (Php 2:13) and in another place: “So, then, it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy.” (Rom 9:16) Now as, undoubtedly, if a man is of the age to use his reason, he cannot believe, hope, love, unless he will to do so, nor obtain the prize of the high calling of God unless he voluntarily run for it; in what sense is it not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy, except that, as it is written, “the preparation of the heart is from the Lord?” Otherwise, if it is said, “It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy, because it is of both,” that is, both of the will of man and of the mercy of God, so that we are to understand the saying, “It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy,” as if it meant the will of man alone is not sufficient, if the mercy of God go not with it—then it will follow that the mercy of God alone is not sufficient, if the will of man go not with it; and therefore, if we may rightly say, it is not of man that wills, but of God that shows mercy, because the will of man by itself is not enough, why may we not also rightly put it in the converse way: “It is not of God that shows mercy, but of man that wills,” because the mercy of God by itself does not suffice? Surely, if no Christian will dare to say this, “It is not of God that shows mercy, but of man that wills,” lest he should openly contradict the apostle, it follows that the true interpretation of the saying, “It is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy,” is that the whole work belongs to God, who both makes the will of man righteous, and thus prepares it for assistance, and assists it when it is prepared.” (Augustine, The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love, Ch. 32)

We know that Christ opened the gates of Hades and therefore the dead to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We know that paradise isn’t Heaven, despite the poor analysis you provide.

What then is the 1st and 2nd Heaven, if there’s a 3rd Heaven?

http://biblehub.com/niv/2_corinthians/12.htm

1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such one caught up to the third heaven. 3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4That he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5Of such one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in my infirmities. 6For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or what he heareth from me.

7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9And he said to me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

What then is the 1st and 2nd Heaven, if there’s a 3rd Heaven?

So what do we read in the Bible in Ephesians starting at 4:11? Let's use the Weymouth translation: And He Himself [Jesus Christ]appointed some to be Apostles, some to be Prophets, some to be evangelists, some to be pastors and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Christ; till we all of us arrive at oneness in faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, and at mature manhood and the stature of full-grown men in Christ. The first thing you might notice is that Christ must appoint the officers/officials of his church. This is clearly emphasized in Hebrews 5:4 http://biblehub.com/hebrews/5-4.htm No man can take this honor upon himself or have it granted by another man via a graduation certificate, etc. Authority matters to God. Before we delve into what the Bible has to say about the offices, let’s first look at the purposes as stated in Ephesians. For this Young’s Literal is especially edifying: unto the perfecting of the saints, for a work of ministration, for a building up of the body of the Christ, http://biblehub.com/ephesians/4-12.htm The three-fold mission of the Church is iterated clearly as: 1. Perfecting the Saints 2. Missionary work 3. Building up the body of Christ (which as you know, said Christ opened the Gates of Hades) #2 “for a work of ministration is best understood by knowing the Greek diakonía ("ministry") specifically refers to Spirit-empowered service guided by faith. The “Spirit-empowered service guided by faith” must be the spreading of the Gospel. What more better service could one man do for another than to share the Good News? What about the necessary offices of the True Church of Jesus Christ as named in the Bible? They are named as: 1. Apostles 2. Prophets 3. Evangelists 4. pastors 5. teachers 6. deacons Do they have special roles? Apostles are special witnesses of Jesus Christ, particularly his resurrection. You’ll likely recall from the Book of Mark that the first lie told about Christ’s resurrection was that it was fake. The witness that Christ lives is a critical one. Prophets perform the function as you’d expect as an astute reader of God’s Holy Word. Evangelists prove a sticky wicket for some. The Greek can bring some clarification: euaggelistḗs (from euaggelízō, "evangelize") – properly, an "evangelist"; someone with a vocational calling from God to announce the good news of the Gospel (see Eph 4:11). Note Bene the call must come from God, but what is this ‘good news’? God saves individually. There is no group Salvation by Christ. It is one to one. So an Evangelist would bring the good news of the Gospel to… you personally. Pastor/Overseer/Bishop is a role that is self-explanatory in that they watch over groups of Christ’s flock. Teachers is self-explanatory and Deacons is an errand runner and another office that an Elder in Christ’s Church may hold. As for prophetesses, I don't know much about that. The Bible is fairly silent on women's roles in the Church. Take a look at 1 Corinthians 11:4-5 where reference is given to both men and women prophesying. 4Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. 5But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. http://biblehub.com/context/1_corinthians/11-4.htm I suspect our modern understanding is flawed in this case. Prophesying means forthtelling which reveals the mind (message) of God in a particular situation. As you can see from above it is closely conjoined with prayer and I suspect may be the natural outcome of that conversation with the Divine. In this case, the personal response of God to prayer for an individual, married couple, family, etc. as they go about trying to live godly lives in a wicked world. The world of the NT was extremely wicked. Do women prophesy in your church?

So what do we read in the Bible in Ephesians starting at 4:11? Let's use the Weymouth translation:

And He Himself [Jesus Christ]appointed some to be Apostles, some to be Prophets, some to be evangelists, some to be pastors and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Christ; till we all of us arrive at oneness in faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, and at mature manhood and the stature of full-grown men in Christ.

The first thing you might notice is that Christ must appoint the officers/officials of his church. This is clearly emphasized in Hebrews 5:4

http://biblehub.com/hebrews/5-4.htm

No man can take this honor upon himself or have it granted by another man via a graduation certificate, etc. Authority matters to God.

Before we delve into what the Bible has to say about the offices, let’s first look at the purposes as stated in Ephesians.

For this Young’s Literal is especially edifying: unto the perfecting of the saints, for a work of ministration, for a building up of the body of the Christ,

http://biblehub.com/ephesians/4-12.htm

The three-fold mission of the Church is iterated clearly as:

1. Perfecting the Saints

2. Missionary work

3. Building up the body of Christ (which as you know, said Christ opened the Gates of Hades)

#2 “for a work of ministration is best understood by knowing the Greek diakonía ("ministry") specifically refers to Spirit-empowered service guided by faith. The “Spirit-empowered service guided by faith” must be the spreading of the Gospel. What more better service could one man do for another than to share the Good News?

What about the necessary offices of the True Church of Jesus Christ as named in the Bible?

They are named as:

1. Apostles

2. Prophets

3. Evangelists

4. pastors

5. teachers

6. deacons

Do they have special roles?

Apostles are special witnesses of Jesus Christ, particularly his resurrection. You’ll likely recall from the Book of Mark that the first lie told about Christ’s resurrection was that it was fake. The witness that Christ lives is a critical one.

Prophets perform the function as you’d expect as an astute reader of God’s Holy Word.

Evangelists prove a sticky wicket for some. The Greek can bring some clarification: euaggelistḗs (from euaggelízō, "evangelize") – properly, an "evangelist"; someone with a vocational calling from God to announce the good news of the Gospel (see Eph 4:11).

Note Bene the call must come from God, but what is this ‘good news’? God saves individually. There is no group Salvation by Christ. It is one to one. So an Evangelist would bring the good news of the Gospel to… you personally.

Pastor/Overseer/Bishop is a role that is self-explanatory in that they watch over groups of Christ’s flock. Teachers is self-explanatory and Deacons is an errand runner and another office that an Elder in Christ’s Church may hold.

As for prophetesses, I don't know much about that. The Bible is fairly silent on women's roles in the Church. Take a look at 1 Corinthians 11:4-5 where reference is given to both men and women prophesying.

4Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. 5But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved.

http://biblehub.com/context/1_corinthians/11-4.htm

I suspect our modern understanding is flawed in this case. Prophesying means forthtelling which reveals the mind (message) of God in a particular situation.

As you can see from above it is closely conjoined with prayer and I suspect may be the natural outcome of that conversation with the Divine. In this case, the personal response of God to prayer for an individual, married couple, family, etc. as they go about trying to live godly lives in a wicked world. The world of the NT was extremely wicked.

Do women prophesy in your church?

What then is the 1st and 2nd Heaven, if there’s a 3rd Heaven?

Well...

...according to Mormonism...

HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church.

Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the Church.

Telestial - where unbelievers go

HELL: A place of torment from which the worst of sinners are resurrected (if they repent) into the Telestial kingdom; only a limited number remain in hell forever, - the devil and the demons and apostates who consciously reject and work against Mormonism.

SALVATION: A word that Mormons qualify in one of three ways: unconditional or general salvation is simply resurrection from the dead, granted to all through Christ's atonement; conditional or individual salvation involves entering the celestial kingdom through works of Mormonism; full salvation means exaltation to become a God as a result of temple ceremonies and other works. The word 'salvation' can have a two-fold meaning: a) forgiveness of sins and b) universal resurrection:

"There will be a General Salvation for all in the sense in which that term is generally used, but salvation, meaning resurrection, is not exaltation" (Stephen L. Richards, Contributions of Joseph Smith, LDS tract, p.5).
"All men are saved by grace alone without any act on their part, meaning they are resurrected" (Bruce McConkie, What Mormons Think of Christ", LDS tract, p.28).

The Mormons have several different levels of "salvation".

General salvation- in Mormon theology, the death of Christ ransoms men from the effects of the fall (Mormon Doctrine, p.62), except for a few sons of perdition who fell with Lucifer. Thus, all mankind will eventually receive general salvation because all men will be resurrected.
Individual salvation - to obtain individual salvation, the standards set forth by the Mormon church must be met. This comes by grace plus baptism plus works.
Exaltation - different degrees of exaltation
Eternal life on the other hand is reserved for the elite few who qualify and are found worthy of this "honor" or "reward" and who will move on to be "exalted." This salvation is in fact the personal "exaltation" or the fast track of the "eternal progression" process in attaining your own self-made status of godhood in order to people your own planet.

What about the necessary offices of the True Church of Jesus Christ as named in the Bible?
They are named as:
1. Apostles
2. Prophets
3. Evangelists
4. pastors
5. teachers
6. deacons

1010...let's start with #6 & move up, shall we?

Deacons...The apostle Paul also wrote 1 Timothy 3:12:

12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

The Mormon Church has 12 yo deacons!!! (How is that a "restoration" of the NT church?)

Do Mormons marry off their 12 yo boys? Do they have children at age 12? Do they "rule households" at age 12? Really?

#4 Pastors...

THERE ARE NO --as in "zero" -- titled "pastors" in the Mormon Church!!!

#3 evangelists...

Since you say one the church purposes is "mission work," tell you what? I'll make a point over the next 2 days and count up the Mormon missionary training manual I've read and then come back to tell you how many times the manual mentions the word "proselytize" or "proselyte" or some variation...and how the Mormon Church routinely and intentionally uses that word in place of "evangelize" or "evangelist"...

I rarely see the Mormon church use the word "evangelism"...vs. proselytism.

#2..."prophets"...

1010, the last time I opened up a copy of a Mormon KJV Bible or Quad ... the following two verses from Hebrews 1:1 and 2 were in there:

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake

in time PAST unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in

THESE LAST DAYS SPOKEN UNTO US BY HIS SON,

whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Tell us, 1010, exactly how long have you had this basic problem of not knowing the basic definitions of "time PAST" versus "THESE LAST DAYS"???

And, since, in effect, Jesus is THE eternal "prophet," why do you keep putting mere men up on a pedestal replacing Him in that role???

#1...apostles...

Yes, God gave us apostles.

(a) "The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (rev. 21:14)

(b)Tell us 1010...if there's been gobs of apostles thru the generations, why are there only "12" on the heavenly wall?

(c) Rev. 2:2 tells us: "that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not," -- yes many church bodies have "apostles" & claim to be a "restored" church...but "apostles (they)...are not" says John the Revelator. (Paul says same thing in 2 Cor 11:13 re counterfeit "apostles")

(d) Jude, Jesus' half brother, said "But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold." (Past tense...Not...listen to what your apostles ARE foretelling...present tense)

(e) I'll elaborate on this point more in my next post...the key questions to jumpstart this point are:
Was Barnabas an "apostle?" (yes, no, "I don't know" would suffice for an answer)
Secondly, did being an "apostle" in the early church always make you an "apostle" unto EVERYBODY -- universal-like -- in the early Church? (yes, no, "I don't know," "I haven't thought about it" would suffice as responses)

********************************************

Now, since you are apparently big on "church office titles" as some sort of "evidence" of what constitutes a "New Testament restoration church"...please enlighten us if you will...

Lds church leaders officially reference themselves as:
..."general authorities?" (Where is that found in the Bible?)
...What about "stake presidents?" Is that "scriptural?"
...Or "high councilors?"
Exactly Where do we find any of these titled leaders mentioned above in the New Testament?
Where is "president" in the New Testament? (That's a distinctly American term coined by George Washington himself...so the Mormon god follows George?)

And while we're at it, re: "Wards?" Where are those to be found in the Bible?

Where is "temple recommend" in any standard work?

(I mean, we can't even locate LDS' teaching of a supposed retrogression of Heavenly Father tracing him back to being some mere man somewhere in time!!!)

And here we thought the LDS church is "restorative"???

**In other words, the mercy of God is not enough if the will of man does not go with it.**

You seem to be the one limiting God. How can God remit your sins if you won’t obey his words in Acts 2:38?

**Augustine refutes this here in his analysis of Rom 9:16:**

I don’t know if Augustine knew it or not, but his quoting: “For it is God which works in you, both to will and to do of His own good pleasure;” (Php 2:13), shows Paul teaching souls that are already born again (Php 1:1). That’s the context of Romans as well (which I’ve pointed out several times).

Predestination or not, here is more for you to critque:

“While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the day of provocation”. Heb. 3:15

God promised them the land. All they had to do was go up and possess it (oops, they had to DO something).

Caleb had faith in God’s promise. I’m sure that you know what he said: “Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it.” Num. 13:30.

Did Caleb ‘merit’ the promised land? Call it what you want, but he believed and obeyed. If God predestined him to have such strong faith, so be it. He made the EFFORT to spy out the land, and was willing to make the EFFORT to take it. If God predestined him to make the effort, so be it.

God promises remission of sins when one is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Will you make the effort?

God’s mercy comes without our obedience. How else would a preacher ever come and preach the gospel to the lost? It is then that God expects a positive response to his will. Acts 2:38 is God’s will (and I don’t recall if you posted any comments on that verse by Augustine).

You seem VERY confused, saying we are not robots, but then picking out verses and commentaries that imply the opposite;....that we have no will of our own to make our own choices. If you believe that God directs our will to be obedient to his, that’s fine. He is directing you to obey Acts 2:38. If you choose not to obey it, then by your theology, you were predestined not to.

“So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.” Heb. 3:19

If they had believed God, they would have gotten off their butts, gone up, and possessed the land that was promised to them.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.