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Against Rome's Apostolic Succession Argument by Bullinger (Part 1)
Beggars All ^ | Dec 29,2013 | - James Swan

Posted on 02/16/2015 12:14:36 PM PST by RnMomof7

Sunday, December 29, 2013

Against Rome's Apostolic Succession Argument by Bullinger (Part 1)

Heinrich Bullinger (1504-1575) was a Swiss Reformer and author of a popular writing entitled The Decades. This particular writing was influential in England, highly esteemed and used as a textbook of sorts for training English clergy. Included in The Decades is a section entitled Of The Holy Catholic Church, and included therein is Bullinger's refutation of Rome's apostolic succession argument (that Rome is the true church because of an historical succession of church authority that began with Peter). Here is the first part of Bullinger's argument:

Second, the succession of doctors or pastors of the Church does not prove anything of itself without the Word of God. The champions and defenders of the papistical church boast that they have a most certain mark of the apostolic Church, that is, in the continual succession of bishops which derives from Peter by Clement the First, and so to Clement the Seventh, and to Paul the Third who died recently, and so continuing to Julius the Third, who has only just been created pope. Moreover they add that all those members are cut off which separate themselves from that church in which alone that apostolic succession is found. And we do not deny that the right succession of pastors was of great weight in the primitive Church. For those who were then called pastors were pastors indeed, and executed the office of pastors. But what kind of pastors those have been for some time who out of the rabble of cardinals,

mitred bishops and sophisters have been called pastors of the church of Rome, only those are ignorant who are altogether without understanding. The prophet Zechariah heard these words spoken to him by the Lord: "Take to thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd; for lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not look for the thing that is lost, nor seek the tender lambs, nor heal that that is hurt, nor.feed that that standeth up: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their hoofs in pieces. Woe be to the idol shepherd that forsaketh the flock," etc. Therefore by their continual succession of bishops who do not teach the Word of God sincerely or execute the office and duty of pastors, these men do not prove any more than if they were to set before the eyes of the world a company, of idols. For who dare deny that many, indeed the majority of bishops of Rome since Gregory the Great were idols and wolves and devourers like those described by the prophet Zechariah? I ask then, what can the continual succession,cf such false pastors prove? indeed, did not the later ones fill almost the whole Church with the traditions of men, and partly oppress the Church of God, and partly persecute it? In the ancient church of the Israelites there was a continual order of succession of bishops, without any interruption from Aaron to Urias, who lived under Ahaz, and to other wicked high priests who also fell away from the Word of God: to the traditions of men, and indeed to idolatry. But for all that, that succession did not prove the idolatrous high-priests, with the church which adhered to them, to be the true high-priests of God and the true Church of God. For the true prophets of God, the sound and catholic fathers, who preached the Word of God alone apart from and indeed clean against all the traditions of men, were not able to reckon up any succession of priests to whom they themselves succeeded. Yet in spite of that, they were most excellent lights, and worthy members of the Church of God, and those who believed their doctrine were neither schismatics nor heretics, but even to this day are acknowledged to be the true Church of Christ. When Christ our Lord, the blessed Son of God, taught here on earth and gathered together his Church, the succession of high_priests ranged itself with his adversaries: but that did not mean that they were the rulers of the true Church of God, and Christ of the heretical church. The apostles of our Lord could not

allege for themselves and their doctrine an unbroken succession of high-priests: for they were ordained by the Lord, who was also himself created of God the High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek, outside the succession of the order of Levi. Yet the Church which was gathered by them is acknowledged by all to be the true and holy Church. The apostles themselves would not allow any to be counted their true followers and successors but those who walked uprightly in the doctrine and way of Christ: for the saying of Paul is notable. and manifest: "Be ye followers of me, even as I am of Christ." And though he speaks these words to all the faithful, and not only to the ministers of God's Word, yet he would have the latter his followers like all other Christians, that is to say, every man in his vocation and calling. The same apostle, speaking at Miletum to the bishops of Asia, says amongst other things: "I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Moreover, of your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things, to draw disciples after them." It is from the apostolic Church itself, indeed from the company or assembly of apostolic bishops and pastors, that Paul the apostle fetches out the wolves and devourers of the Church. But do you not think that these could have alleged the apostolic succession for themselves and their most corrupt cause, that is, that, they were descended from apostolic pastors? But since forsaking the truth they have fallen from the faith and doctrine of the apostles, their derivation and apostolic succession does not in any way help them. Therefore we conclude that of itself the continual succession of bishops does not prove anything, but on the contrary that succession which lacks the purity of evangelical and apostolic doctrine is not valid.

Source: Library of Christian Classics Vol. XXIV: Zwingli and Bullinger (Philadelphia: The Westminster Press, 1953), pp. 309-311



TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; History; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: apostles; catholicism
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1 posted on 02/16/2015 12:14:36 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; CynicalBear; daniel1212; Gamecock; HossB86; Iscool; ...

First in a series in answer to another FR poster


2 posted on 02/16/2015 12:17:40 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

You’d think there were bigger fish to fry...like the head chopping satanic death cult knocking on our door - not your Christian brethren (yes, Christian).


3 posted on 02/16/2015 12:18:59 PM PST by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: Carpe Cerevisi; Salvation


4 posted on 02/16/2015 12:20:11 PM PST by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

There were bigger “fish to fry” during the Inquisition too...


5 posted on 02/16/2015 12:20:44 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

Does not follow. Nice try though...


6 posted on 02/16/2015 12:27:39 PM PST by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: RnMomof7
Fellow Catholics: don't let you hearts be troubled.

Since Luther, these attempts to undermine the TRUE HISTORICAL RECORD have never stopped.

There are answers to everything they raise - this is the beauty of TRUTH being our hallmark and polestar.

They have bits and pieces, but only in the CATHOLIC CHURCH is there the FULLNESS OF THE FAITH!
7 posted on 02/16/2015 12:34:22 PM PST by jobim (.)
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To: RnMomof7

“There were bigger “fish to fry” during the Inquisition too...”

Whatever you say Barack.


8 posted on 02/16/2015 12:36:50 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: jobim
...but only in the CATHOLIC CHURCH is there the FULLNESS OF THE FAITH!

Perhaps you are correct and the Word of God is wrong? And what "faith"? The Roman Catholic faith? Faith in God through Lord Jesus Christ alone?
9 posted on 02/16/2015 12:39:42 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Carpe Cerevisi
...not your Christian brethren (yes, Christian).

Perhaps. RC posters on FR RF have been less than convincing, thus far. You have new evidence?
10 posted on 02/16/2015 12:43:06 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero

The Apostles were the first bishops in what was later referred to as the CATHOLIC CHURCH. And they carried the ONE TRUE FAITH forward in time, right down to today. You can trace it - you really can! An unbroken line of succession!


11 posted on 02/16/2015 12:46:21 PM PST by jobim (.)
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To: Resettozero
Perhaps. RC posters on FR RF have been less than convincing, thus far. You have new evidence?

No, no really. I've about given up on the "my religion is better than your religion" game. It's stupid and time is too short. I say to hell with it.
12 posted on 02/16/2015 12:48:14 PM PST by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: jobim
You can trace it - you really can! An unbroken line of succession!

It's possible you've believed this all your religious life but...

In fact, not even you can trace it through scholarship. What you believe is an unbroken line of popes to Peter is untraceable. You have been taught historical error.

The only ones who believe this are gullible Roman Catholic adherents. Your learned leaders know better.
13 posted on 02/16/2015 12:51:51 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Carpe Cerevisi
I've about given up on the "my religion is better than your religion" game. It's stupid and time is too short. I say to hell with it.

Well, there you go. Each one makes his/her own decision regarding what is true and your decision is unclear.
14 posted on 02/16/2015 12:54:01 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Carpe Cerevisi
When I see something like this info posted I usually check out who is arguing that the Catholic Church is of the devil, and then I move on.

It is really hard to talk with people who think they know everything. Sorta like the inability to dialogue with a radical imam.

The best progress Christianity has had is when honest individuals recognize what they have in common and build from that.

The only thing a discussion like this does is re-open old wounds and no one is ever satisfied at the result.

15 posted on 02/16/2015 12:57:25 PM PST by Slyfox (I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever)
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To: Slyfox
It is really hard to talk with people who think they know everything.

You see the problem non-RCC Christians have on this forum then.
16 posted on 02/16/2015 1:00:03 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero
No I really don't see the problem other than people unwilling to look at our REAL common enemy. Do you know who that is?
17 posted on 02/16/2015 1:04:57 PM PST by Slyfox (I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever)
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To: Resettozero

OK - got it. 15 centuries of believers got it wrong, but along comes a misfit monk who can’t keep his libido in check, and has the SATORI to understand that there is no way to avoid a sinful life, and so comes up with sola fides and avoids all those messy mortal sins that Catholics keep track of. Yeah, I like the ease, the simplicity, the cake-and-eat-it-too!


18 posted on 02/16/2015 1:05:59 PM PST by jobim (.)
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To: Slyfox
No I really don't see the problem other than people unwilling to look at our REAL common enemy. Do you know who that is?

For the first 32 years of my life, no. Since then, yes. Do you know the real common enemy of all men?
19 posted on 02/16/2015 1:07:49 PM PST by Resettozero
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To: Resettozero

The devil from the hot place comes first to my mind. Your turn.


20 posted on 02/16/2015 1:09:26 PM PST by Slyfox (I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever)
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