Posted on 03/22/2015 5:47:53 PM PDT by grumpa
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The Revelation scares the crap out of Gary DeMar, R.J. Rushdoony, Gary North, Greg Bahnsen, David Chilton, and Andrew Sandlin!
So much so that they try to imagine their way out of the realities of it.
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I will defer to what my pastor said about Revelation, that it is like a picture, showing patterns and symbols.
In regard to patterns, he said the tribulation that Christians went thru under Nero is a pattern, and the tribulations down thru the ages, during WWII, and to this day, fit the pattern.
Christ is reigning now.
OP asked about the tribulation, when is (was) the great tribulation.
“1000 years” isn’t a literal span of time; IIRC that’s in the book of Revelations, which has symbols and patterns.
Christ defeated Satan & his minions at Calvary.
He reigns now.
‘Christ appear to everyone ‘ is in the book of Revelations also, at Judgement Day.
OT prophecy shows the path to Christ.
Shows how God made it happen through the Israelite nation and remnant.
Matthew starts with the lineage of the King of Kings.
That bunch is still going to be gathering stones to stone prostitutes anticipating dominionism when Christ returns.
John A.T. Robinson pegged the date of the NT books at before 70 AD.
“More Than Conquerors” is the book we are studying in adult Sunday school at the orthodox Presbyterian church I attend.
It does not agree with the Darby dispensationalism/ ‘end time prophecy’ view.
Your pastor should read it occasionally. Reality fits the word of God, not your poor, confused pastor.
The seals of the Revelation are a description of what the world has had to go through for the past 2000 years to end Satan's strangle hold on the Earth.
John described it as breaking the seals holding Satan's deed to the Earth closed. The work is not yet done, there are yet two more seals to be broken in the short time that remains before Satan is removed from the presence of God and cast down to Earth.
That is when the Tribulation of God's elect will begin. The man of sin will make Nero and Hitler look like sunday school teachers in an Arminian church.
The only way to avoid that tribulation is to emulate the “church at Philadelphia” by keeping God's commandments (the ones that your nicolaitan pastor probably says don't apply to us).
Revelation 3:
[2] Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
[3] Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
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DeMar et al came after Darby, so DeMar is recent too.
I don’t hold with his view that humans’ endeavor can affect when Judgment Day happens.
That is up to God.
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>> “It does not agree with the Darby dispensationalism/ ‘end time prophecy’ view.” <<
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Only one of the people you have pinged actually holds that view.
All but one of the NT books were written before 70 AD.
The one that is the subject of this thread was noted by the Apostle John’s disciple Polycarp to have been written after 90 AD.
He makes way more sense than Robinson, or any of his ilk.
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So where does all the sin in the world come from today? Is Satan in chains currently?
“...The only way to avoid that tribulation is to emulate the “church at Philadelphia” by keeping God’s commandments (the ones that your nicolaitan pastor probably says don’t apply to us). ...”
The Law of God is read in my church every Sunday, and we are reminded to keep it.
Also we are reminded of Christ’s death and resurrection, and His work of saving us.
We have touched on many topics, other than “when is (was)the great tribulation”.
Looking at that question, all I can say is, agree to disagree on it.
Salvation is by believing in Christ, not when the great tribulation happened/will happen.
LOL! How many people did he show from history that Nero banished to Patmos rather than simply having killed? Hint,,,,he didn't. Anyone who thinks Revelation was written any time before the 90s is delusional.
Anyone who gives credibility to DeMar, Rushdooney, or any of that crowd doesn't know either history or scripture.
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It would take a month of sundays to read all of the law of God.
Rev 22:14
“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
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I don’t agree with DeMar et al in regards to their saying ‘we Christians need to make a theocracy and then Jesus can return’.
Agreeing with him on when Revelation was written or that the all prophecy was fulfilled in 70AD is equally as absurd.
I think the problem lies with the view we have of time; how can a Christian be forgiven but still wrestle with sin & do things that are sin.
Revelations is symbolic with respect to amount of years.
1000 years is a metaphor, not a literal “1000 years”.
Sin is real; its a residual, as it were, from the Fall ( “all have sinned & fallen short”) and originated with Lucifer/Satan.
Born again Christians still have sin/can sin, but they also have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit on account of Christ’s work at Calvary.
Satan is limited/chained/short-leashed; a beaten adversary.
Editor-surveyor
Like I said earlier, we will just have to agree to disagree about
1) when the Great Tribulation occurs.
2) when Revelations was written.
I was just pointing out that there have always been folks who interpreted the events in Revelation as future events, even going back as far as 160 AD. It’s not a new interpretation, and just because some have disagreed with the future events position, it doesn’t invalidate the position.
Clarification : our salvation was done by Christ; we are saved by faith/believing in Him.
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