Gay Catholics Push for Church Weddings

Aletelia ^ | July 29, 2015 | JOHN BURGER

[NYer]

When the Supreme Court ruling came down in late June, extending the right to marriage to members of the same sex in all 50 states, some observers felt that the Catholic Church was fairly immune to any requirements that it would have to allow same-sex weddings before her altars.

Now, though, calls for the Church to allow such nuptials are bubbling up. How far they will get is another question.

The issue was raised Tuesday by a report in the New York Times that featured “gay and transgender Catholics” who are making noises with the approaching visit to these shores of Pope Francis. And the noises are not exactly joyful.

“While some American conservatives are eager to see Pope Francis make use of his popularity on this trip to advance the fight against abortion and same-sex marriage, gay Catholics want him to acknowledge their rejection by the Church, and to welcome them as full members with equal access to sacraments like baptism and marriage,” the report said.

The article’s lede focused on an incident in which a young transgendered Catholic was put off by another member of the congregation who, perhaps indiscreetly, suggested that the person not go up to receive Communion.

While such an incident cannot be taken as emblematic of an entire Church’s collective treatment of “sexual minorities,” as some like to call homosexuals and persons who believe they were born with a body of the wrong sex, the Times found several people who believe otherwise. In fact, the paper said, “a large group of gay and transgender Catholics...are seeking a meeting with the Pope during his first visit to the United States, in September, pushing him to take a stand on the issues of sexuality and gender that are increasingly dividing Catholics and causing rancor in the Church.”

Marianne Duddy-Burke, executive director of DignityUSA, said that many homosexual Catholics face constant torture in the Church, in situations ranging from denial for a child’s baptism or hearing something offensive in a homily. She wants to meet with Pope Francis when he comes, to share such “stories of pain and alienation,” which “do real harm to people.”

“It needs to end,” she said.

A July 5 press release issued by Dignity, which has been denied Catholic status by the Church because it advances viewpoints contrary to doctrine, said that members meeting for the organization’s national convention voted to begin advocating for “equal access to all of the sacraments of the Catholic Church for LGBT people and their families.”

“We can’t be fully equal if we are barred from any of our Church’s sacraments,” said Duddy-Burke. “Right now, we are officially banned from marriage and ordination, and often denied other sacraments, as well."

Earlier this month, the Episcopal Church in the United States voted to allow sacramental wedding ceremonies of same-sex couples. 

Dignity’s convention took place in the bright afterglow of the Supreme Court’s Obergefell v. Hodges decision, which said any remaining state laws banning same-sex “marriage” are unconstitutional. At the same time, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops expressed support for a congressional bill that would help protect the Church and other religious institutions under the new “law of the land.” The First Amendment Defense Act, introduced by Sen. Mike Lee, R-UT, and Rep. Raul Labrador, R-ID, would prohibit the federal government from discriminating against individuals and organizations based upon their religious beliefs or moral convictions that marriage is the union of one man and one woman or that sexual relations are properly reserved to such a marriage. For such individuals and organizations, the Act provides broad protections, including in the areas of federal contracts, grants, employment, and tax-exempt status.

The push for a meeting of same-sex-attracted Catholics with Pope Francis runs contrary to one of the main reasons for the Pontiff’s first American visit. The last event on his five-day schedule will be in Philadelphia: the closing Mass for the World Meeting of Families, a triennial event meant to strengthen the natural family founded on the marriage of a man and woman. The Church and many Catholics have been supporting such initiatives as a way to counter the growing acceptance of “alternative” relationships and families.

That’s not stopping some from pushing a different agenda, of course. The Times reports that about 14 families with gay or transgender members have registered to attend the World Meeting of Families. Deb Word, president of Fortunate Families, a support group for Catholic parents seeking full inclusion of their gay children in the church, said her group applied to have a table in the exhibit hall, but was rejected.
 

“We wanted to go and share resources on how you can safeguard your child’s long-term health by using loving acceptance in your home. It doesn’t sound like a scary message, does it?” said Ms. Word…. In Philadelphia, she will be wearing a small rainbow ribbon pin and carrying a bag of literature for Catholics she meets who express interest.

As the Times pointed out, though the Pope’s words during an in-flight interview, “Who am I to judge?” have been interpreted to mean that he is open to a new understanding of homosexuality in the Church, he has perhaps more often spoken out strongly in support of orthodoxy. On a visit to the Philippines in January, Pope Francis said that “the family is threatened by growing efforts” to “redefine the very institution of marriage,” the Times noted. He also criticized wealthy Western countries for imposing their ideas about gender on developing countries, calling it “ideological colonization.”

A month later, he was quoted in a book saying that “gender theory,” which holds that gender is a social construct, is one of the great modern dangers to humanity, like nuclear weapons.
 

[Amendment10]

..., I would expect that after the appropriate calls to repent of their sin, that they would be barred from the church.

I don’t think that the Holy Bible provides other remedies. Corrections welcome.

[redgolum]

Choose who you will serve.

It will be diocese by diocese, bishop by bishop, priest by priest (in my case by pastor).

Many will fall I fear. Many will not. But the push to keep a hold of the material possessions will lead many to just go along.

[redgolum]

There are those who have SSAD, but are celibate. I know a few.

It is hard path for them, and one that is made much worse by well meaning people who encourage them to fall into sin and be “happy”.

[kosciusko51]

Matthew 18:15-17 (NASB)

If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

[verga]

Plenty of non-Catholic churches down the road will be happy to perform a ceremony for them.

[treetopsandroofs]

“But that won’t change. It can’t change. Not gonna happen.”

“Elsewhere in the article, the reporter notes that the pope “has shown no indication that he intends to lead the church toward changing its teaching that gay people are ‘called to chastity’ and marriage is only for a man and a woman.” “

Just a few years ago, the leftists’ god-king said the same thing, but he and Michael “evolved”.

Michael’s husband is scheduled to leave the White Mosque soon.

The “pope” is in office for life.

“Not gonna happen”?

[SuziQ]

"gay Catholics want him to acknowledge their rejection by the Church, and to welcome them as full members with equal access to sacraments like baptism and marriage,” the report said."

Interesting how the writer lumps those two sacraments together. Most Catholics are baptized as children, thus have not yet declared a sexual preference, so there is no impediment there. If they want to be baptized as adults, they need to declare acceptance and belief in the teachings of the Church. If they are living in an active homosexual relationship, they are already rejecting a major teaching of the Church, and the Church has every right to deny them Baptism.

Marriage, on the other hand, is a Sacrament, rooted in Scripture, and Natural Law, and is strictly between a man and a women. What the Church will have to do, and do it FAST, before any lawsuits are filed, is declare that she will no longer be the agent of ANY state ( not just the United States), and thus will reserve the Sacrament of Marriage for those who meet the requirements for the Sacrament, man-woman, and at least one practicing Catholic. I'm sure there will be those who will try to haul the Church into court for that, but I don't think a true religious practice can be violated by the government, under our Constitution.

This will also raise an interesting situation. There are probably older folks who may want to marry, but all the legal stuff, inheritance, etc, could be a nightmare. They could be married in the Church, and never bother getting married, in the civil sense. Thus, they can be married in their Faith, and won't have to worry about their Social Security or pension benefits being impacted by a civil marriage.

[SuziQ]

“We can’t be fully equal if we are barred from any of our Church’s sacraments,” said Duddy-Burke. “Right now, we are officially banned from marriage and ordination, and often denied other sacraments, as well."

If they are unwilling to live according to the teachings of the Church, they shouldn't receive the Sacraments. Doesn't matter how they 'feel' about it. They aren't interested in living as Catholics, so why don't they go to an Episcopal church?

[SuziQ]

What goes unmentioned is that in Catholic teaching all people—gay and straight, married and single—are called to chastity. There are not different standards or expectations for gays from everyone else.

Precisely!

[markomalley]

Sadly, this one has been coming for a few years.

---

The Bittersweet Victory: Why Gay Marriage Still Isn't Marriage (the real end game defined)
Time ^ | 6/26/2011 (yes, 2011) | Howard Chua-Eoan

Posted on 6/26/2013, 6:08:36 PM by markomalley

(snip)

But in one very important way, gay marriage will not quite be marriage even in New York, even 30 days from now when the law goes into effect. That is because the psycho-sexual-financial-commercial-legal dramas that entangle the domestic lives of straight people often have another component: religion. And religious institutions have an exemption in the new law over accommodating gay people. It was key to the passage of the legislation.

Marriage without a church or temple wedding isn't the real thing. Why can some people have all the bells and whistles in the church of their choice but not me? Of course, there have been and will be congregations and churches that allow gay men and lesbians to be married in their midst and to bless those unions, recognizing that God loves them just as much as Governor Andrew Cuomo does. But some rich and influential religious institutions [NB: read this as the Catholic Church] are not only free to continue to reject gay men and women as equal beneficiaries of all aspects of faith but will now also rally their congregants to reject politicians who are willing to abide with this extension of secular civil rights — no matter how much acceptance there is of same-sex marriage elsewhere, no matter how many wedding announcements appear in the New York Times.

(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...

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[Still Thinking]

Well, if you’re right, and I’m not sure I disagree, then homosexuality would amount to a mental illness, which can indeed be congenital (though certainly a mark of imperfection). There are tons of mental illnesses that make people want to do things that are in fact sinful, such as kleptomania, sex addiction (not saying sex is sinful, but that sexually addicted people will no doubt crave to satisfy that desire by any means, many of which will be sinful), sociopathy, etc. These (in some people) are manifestations of the imperfection we inherited from Adam. I seriously doubt that the Church excludes people with any of those tendencies, assuming that they’re doing their best to live their lives according to Bible moral standards. I’m aware of no other religion that excludes people based on tendencies rather than actions (though obviously it would be necessary for the person to acknowledge that the tendency is in fact something to fight against).

[SuziQ]

The misguided Catholic Church is corrupting itself as a consequence of not obeying the Holy Bible with respect to the Holy Bible’s condemnation of same-sex sexual relationships, giving gays the boot. 1 Corinthians 15:33 comes to mind.

Did Jesus give sinners 'the boot'? No, he treated them as children of God, but told them to "go, and sin no more". The Catholic Church has always welcomed sinners, and preaches "hate the sin, but love the sinner", and for that, I'm glad, because I know I'm a sinner in need of redemption. Maybe not serious sin, but sin, nonetheless.

Unless we invite people to worship, how else will we reach them, and show them God's love? That doesn't mean we change our teachings, and we haven't done that, the US media hype about Pope Francis's comment notwithstanding. People are welcome to join the Church, but if they do, they will do it with the understanding that the Church will not change her teachings to make them feel comfortable in whatever sinful behavior they happen to engage.

[Mercat]

Actually, a person who is attracted to have sex with someone of the same gender is still allowed to marry a person of the opposite sex. I’m pretty sure that given the history of the bunch of queens who were in the seminaries in the 70s and the havoc they wrecked that the seminaries are being very careful who they allow in now but having an attraction is not the same as somehow you’re born a certain way. I’m trying to change my speech and my granddaughter’s speech so that I don’t speak of “gay” people but of people who are sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. We all need to do that. Once we lost that narrative, it became a civil rights issue which it totally is not.

[madprof98]

. . . hearing something offensive in a homily

They'd have to do a lot of church-hopping before they'd hit anything they'd find offensive, I'll bet.

[FourtySeven]

I’m not sure the classification “Catholic Jew” is so absurd. At least as far as one’s Jewry as an ancestral classification is concerned (”Jew” is both a racial and religious classification as far as I understand; this is why there are “Secular Jew’s” for example such people don’t practice the Jewish faith but are Jews by birth). So it can be for those who convert to Catholicism. Jews who are Catholic.

I’m not sure about a Bar Mitzvah I don’t know much about that ceremony, but it doesn’t seem to me to be anti-Catholic. As a cultural tradition it doesn’t seem to be contrary to Church teaching; I don’t know for sure though. Mother Miriam would know these answers best I suspect. http://www.catholic.com/profiles/mother-miriam-of-the-lamb-of-god

[darkangel82]

They want everything, including church, to be about them.

[Gamecock]

**Won’t be too much long before the true church goes underground just as was spoken of. Amazing we are living at such a time....I really didn’t expect it to be so apparent in my lifetime....but things have defiantly escalated.**

It is interesting, though it seems like the church is now thriving in Africa and South America. We’ll see how it all plays out.

[Prince of Space]

Catholic hospitals will also close at that point, and they provide 15-20% of hospital services in America.

[Mrs. Don-o]

The Catholic Church will never capitulate to these demands.

"On a visit to the Philippines in January, Pope Francis said that “the family is threatened by growing efforts” to “redefine the very institution of marriage,” the Times noted. He also criticized wealthy Western countries for imposing their ideas about gender on developing countries, calling it 'ideological colonization.'<

"A month later, he was quoted in a book saying that 'gender theory,' which holds that gender is a social construct, is one of the great modern dangers to humanity, like nuclear weapons.'"

While we're at it, here's my own not-updated and not- complete, but still pretty robust link list of the Pope speaking out in favor of traditional marriage morality and against gay marriage and radical "gender theory" over the past 6 months or so.

What, you haven't seen these in the mainstream media, either?

Ever wonder why?

---

LINKS:

Pope Francis Tells Couples To Wait Until Marriage To Have Sex

Pope Francis: Gender Theory Is a Threat to Society

Pope: Marriage between man and woman is threatened by gender ideology

Pope Francis: “Children have a ‘Right’ to a Mother and Father”

The Closed Door of Pope Francis (Speaks against abortion, divorce, and homosexuality)

Pope Francis: marriage inscribed in creation (Man/Woman)

Pope Francis and the family, the next step (pro-Traditional Family)

Pope Francis is starting to look a lot like Sarah Palin (Guardian UK dumps Francis)

A Letter to Pope Francis (Pope defends man-woman marriage)

Pope: Men, Women “Different”

Pope Rejects ‘So-Called Gender Theory’

Pope Rejected Gay French Diplomat as Ambassador to Holy See

Pope Francis 'refuses' gay French ambassador

Kasper is Not the 'Pope's Theologian,' Says Leading African Cardinal

Cardinal Burke Denies Rift With Pope, Warns of ‘Gay Agenda’ for Synod

Pope: Men, Women “Different”

Pope Rejects ‘So-Called Gender Theory’

Pope Rejected Gay French Diplomat as Ambassador to Holy See

Pope Francis 'refuses' gay French ambassador

Pope Francis condemns gender theory a third time: ‘The family is under attack’

Pope Francis defends church’s opposition to artificial contraception

Pope Francis Defends Human Nature Against Gender Radicals

Pope's Shocking Hitler Youth Comparison (Pope blasts gender theory)

Pope Francis: ‘The Choice To Not Have Children Is Selfish’

Pope declares couples who don’t want kids ‘selfish,’ says they are part of a ‘greedy generation’

Pope Francis on abortion: ‘Never, never does killing a person resolve a problem’

Pope Francis praises Chilean mother who chose life for baby with anencephaly at heart of abortion debate

Bringing children into the world is never a ‘mistake’: Pope Francis

Don’t be afraid to have more children: Pope Francis

Pope Francis supports Slovak effort to ban gay ‘marriage’, adoption

Pope Francis Defends Human Nature Against Gender Radicals

Pope's Shocking Hitler Youth Comparison (Pope blasts gender theory)

Pope to Catholic couples: you can’t get married if you’re not open to children

Pope Francis praises Humanae Vitae, warns of attacks on family

[piusv]

Hogwash.

There is no need to call oneself a “gay” Catholic. Not to mention the fact that “gay” usually means actively homo.