Posted on 04/12/2016 4:26:25 AM PDT by NYer
The Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo “almost certainly covered the cadaver of the same person.” This is the conclusion from an investigation that has compared the two relics using forensics and geometry.
The research was done by Dr. Juan Manuel Miñarro, a sculpture professor at the University of Seville, as part of a project sponsored by the Valencia-based Centro Español de Sindonología (CES) (The Spanish Center of Sindonology).Transparency acetate on three-dimensional model used in the investigation of Juan Manuel Miñarro . LINTEUM
The study thus supports what tradition has held for more than two millennia: that the two cloths came from the same historical person, who, according to this tradition, was Jesus of Nazareth.
The Shroud of Turin would have been the linen that covered that body of Jesus when he was placed in the tomb, while the Sudarium would have been the cloth used to cover his face on the cross after he died.
Both cloths would be those found by Peter and John in the tomb, as the Gospel recounts.
The study “doesn’t prove in itself that this person was Jesus Christ, but it does clearly advance us along the path of being able to indisputably demonstrate that the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium were wrapped around the head of the same cadaver,” Miñarro explained to Paraula.
Blood stains
In fact, the investigation has found a number of correlations between the two relics that “far exceeds the minimum number of proofs or significant points required by most judicial systems around the world to identify a person, which is between eight and 12, while our study has demonstrated more than 20.”
Specifically, the research has discovered “very important coincidences” in the principal morphological characteristics (type, size and distances of the markings), the number and distribution of the blood stains, the unique markings from some of the wounds reflected on both of the cloths or the deformed surfaces.
There are “points that demonstrate the compatibility between both cloths” in the area of the forehead, where there are remains of blood, as well as at the back of the nose, the right cheekbone and the chin, which “present different wounds.”
Regarding the blood stains, Miñarro explained that the marks found on the two cloths have morphological differences, but that “what seems unquestionable is that the sources, the points from which blood began to flow, correspond entirely.”
The variations could be explained by the fact that “the contact with the [cloths] was different” in regard to duration, placement and intensity of the contact of the head with each of the cloths, as well as the “elasticity of the weave of each linen.”
Certainly, the coincidences demonstrated on the two cloths “are such that now it is very difficult to think that they came from different people,” according to Jorge Manuel Rodríguez, president of the CES.
In the light of this investigation, he said, “we have come to a point where it seems absurd to suggest that ‘by happenstance’ all of the wounds, lesions and swelling coincides on both cloths. … Logic requires that we conclude that we are speaking of the same person.”
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.—Luke 8:17
Related:
The Exposition of the Holy Tunic of Argeneuil.
Translated from the Spanish by Kathleen Hattrup.
The wounds on the Shroud are in the wrists.
The carbon dating was botched. The piece of cloth used wasn’t part of the Shroud.
Nothing.
“Read Holy Blood, Holy Grail...”
Wacked out conspiracy theory—promotes the notion that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married and had children, because “clues” were supposedly planted in certain renaissance-era paintings, plus a whole lot of other “clues” and secret societies and elaborate coverup schemes originating purely in the authors’ imaginations.
There is NO evidence that Jesus had a “family” consisting of wife or subsequent heirs.
Dan Brown based his DaVinci Code on Holy Blood, Holy Grail. Why would you recommend BS like this as if it were valid?
There is evidence that Jesus’ mother spent her remaining years in the city of Ephesus, where she was cared for by the apostle John. Jesus instructed John to do so. IIRC there is a house in Ephesus that according to legend is where Mary lived.
Whether or not Jesus mayhave had brothers —IOW whether Mary may have had biological children or step-children with Joseph—is a source of debate. Good luck with that one.
There are numerous source materials tracing the travels of the various apostles. Peter was crucified in Rome. His bones are beneath St. Peter’s Basilica. Paul was beheaded in Rome. Thomas traveled to India. Etc.
That’s been debunked. The sample used in the carbon dating test came from an area that had been patched. Microscopic views of that particular area showed a much different material pattern than the rest of the shroud.
Ping to: New Study: The Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo Covered the Same Person
“The Hebrew words are used in a large variety of idiomatic expressions, part of which have passed into the Greek (through the Sepuagint) and into modern European languages (through the translations of the Bible; see Oxford Hebrew Lexicon, under the word “yadh”). We group what has to be said about the word under the following heads:
1. The Human Hand:
Various Uses:
The human hand (considered physically) and, anthropopathically, the hand of God (Genesis 3:22; Psalms 145:16):
The hand included the wrist, as Will be seen from all passages in which bracelets are mentioned as ornaments of the hand, e.g. Genesis 24:22,30,47; Ezekiel 16:11; 23:42, or where the Bible speaks of fetters on the hands (Judges 15:14, etc.).”
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The point being raise in the article, and not clearly stated, is that if the two pieces of cloth covered the same person, the shroud is older than demonstrated by the carbon dating process, done not long ago on the shroud.
It is believed that the test was done on a patched area on the edge of the shroud. The person doing the patching inter-weaved new material into the burnt shroud, after it was damaged by fire.
The important point is that the chain of possession of the face cloth is much older, and can be dated long before the time noted through the shroud's recent carbon dating.
Back prior to 1974 I read accounts of the discovery of the remains of a crucified man that demonstrate that nails were driven through the wrists of the individual crucified. The shroud's occupant also had nails driven through his wrist.
This being said, I have always been skeptical of stigmata signs in the palms of the hands. Romans would not have changed their method of crucifixion over time. Ropes would have allowed the individual to pull upward and take part of the weight off the feet. The Romans wanted the cruelest method possible, and the most painful.
http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/08/synaxarion-for-holy-mandylion-of-edessa.html
I think most of the favored theories involve the identity of the Shroud with the Mandylion of Edessa, which was in Edessa in modern Turkey and then Constantinople for the first millenium AD, only being brought to the West by the Crusaders after the sack of Constantinople. I don’t know what legend says of the travels of the Sudarium of Orvieto.
None of the parables that Christ told were historical. Not a single one of them ever happened. Are they any less true?
I am not saying that truth is relative, mind you. I am saying that truth is more than merely historical. And that for a Christian in the Middle Ages, the *symbol* of St. Francis bearing the wounds of Christ was more important than the exact *location* of those wounds.
Wow. Impressive.
I wouldn’t assume that crucifixion was always done exactly the same way. People can be nailed through the wrist, or they can be nailed through the palm and their weight supported a different way (ropes around the wrists, etc.).
bump
Something else I’ve thought about is this: while we know Alexander crucified enemies, I have not researched the punishment of crucifixion to find out how universal it was prior to Alexander.
My point is, does anyone find it odd that the Old Testament prophets would write about this form of punishment when, in fact, in their world stoning was the typical means of capital punishment? In other words, it seems to add further weight to the prophecy that Jesus was killed by a method that the OT prophets of the day had very little experience with . . . or am I missing something?
Yes, thanks all. See my question, above, though on the universality of crucifixion in the pre-Alexandrian world.
I’m not sure we’re talking about the same show, but I’ve seen this one entitled “The Real Face of Jesus,” and it was fascinating.
Besides watching the emergence of a 3-dimentional face come from the Shroud, I found the reaction of the lead scientist to be extremely interesting.
I saw signs of belief in his face at the end.
Anyway, here’s a link to the program if you haven’t seen it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNJPJ4JwHeE
Regards,
People were crucified through hands as well demonstrated by the evidence presented in this new article.
“Three nails where found in the ossuary with pieces of hand bones attached to two of them, suggesting the victim had been crucified.”
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/archaeology/.premium-1.587977
It probably depended on who was doing the crucifixions.
The professional executioners probably did it through the wrist, but what if they had the day off? Joe Schmoe centurion probably had no clue how to do it properly and all bets were off.
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Thanks for the ping. This study adds topographical evidence to the conclusion that the Shroud and the Sundarium covered the same person. The preponderance of evidence from both supports the conclusion that person was Jesus Christ.
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