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To: Zuriel
And in what way am I denying the Son?

By not believing the whole of Scripture, that Jesus, the Son of God, is also omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent.

I define him just as the scriptures define him

No you don't. You only quote the Scriptures that agree with your world view, and you totally ignore the rest of Scripture. Jesus inspired the writing of the entire Bible, "John 8:58 before Abraham was, I am" so just quoting what He said while here on earth and disregarding everything else, puts you in the category of being a "smorgasbord Christian" take what you want, leave the rest.

I can take any passage you present, where you think that you can show separate and distinct deity,

I've given you many, but because they do not fit in with your ideology, you refuse to accept them, or you twist them to suit your personal belief system. But here is another for you.

Genesis 1:26
¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

This passage is plural, so either you believe in many gods, or you believe that God is one, and yet consists of separate and distinct personages. But to say that Christ is a created being is not Biblical, which makes you an unbeliever.

Here is another verse for you.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

Obviously, this verse is referring to Christ being God, because there have been many people over the course of history, who have saved other people from many things, And I'm sure we both agree that they were not God. So this verse is referring to a particular saviour, isn't it?

And another one.

(Isaiah 43:10-11)
"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. {11} I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."

So is the Savior God, or is the Saviour a created being, or perhaps you don't believe Jesus Christ is the Saviour at all.

101 posted on 05/23/2016 10:30:52 PM PDT by WhatNot (The Gospel doesn't promise the American dream, it promises Eternal life in the Kingdom of God.)
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To: WhatNot

(sorry, I’m an OTR driver. So replies can take days.)

**Genesis 1:26**

I believe that to be God the Father speaking to the firstborn, “the beginning of the creation of God” (Rev. 3:14)

In John 14:2, the Son tells who owns the house in heaven: “in my Father’s house are many mansions..”.

The Son goes to prepare a place alright. But it is the Father that powers him to do so. By the way, it is the Father is who made him Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:32-36)

**By not believing the whole of Scripture, that Jesus, the Son of God, is also omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent.**

It is the Father that makes the ‘mind of Christ’ omnipresent. The ‘Comforter’ could not come until the Son physically left this earth. It is the Father that sends the ‘Comforter’.

**You only quote the Scriptures that agree with your world view, and you totally ignore the rest of Scripture.**

Here’s a list of words and references, showing who was the original provider of knowledge (and all other things divine as well):
gave: 3:16, 10:29, 12:49, 14:31
gavest: 17:4,6,8,12,22, 18:9
give: 14:6, 15:16, 16:23
given: 3:35, 5:26,27,36, 6:39,65, 7:39, 13:3, 17:2(2),7,8,9,11,24(2)
received: 10:18
send: 14:26, 15:26, 17:8, Acts 3:20
sent: 3:17,34, 4:34, 5:23,24,30,36,37,38, 6:29,38,39,40,44,57, 7:16,18,28,29,33, 8:16,18,26,29,42, 9:4, 10:36, 11:42, 12:44,45,49, 13:16,20, 14:24, 15:21, 16:5, 17:3,18,21,23,25, 20:21
will (noun): 4:34, 5:30(2), 6:38,39,40, 7:17
will (verb): 5:20, 11:22, 12:26, 14:26, 15:26, 16:23
word and words (actually there are others that should be included, but the Son made it clear in the following ones whose ‘words’ they were): 3:34, 14:24, 17:6,8,14,17
work and works: 4:34, 5:20,36(2), 9:4, 10:25,37,38, 14:10, 17:4

doctrine: 7:16,17: “My doctrine is NOT mine, but HIS that SENT me. If any man will do HIS will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of GOD, or whether I speak of myself.”

That’s over 100 references (from the book of John alone) showing that the Son’s source of ALL things divine, ALL power, ALL wisdom, etc., is from God the Father. There are plenty more alluding to the same.

BUT......here is a question for you: With your separate and distinct persons of God theology; can you quote a scripture that shows the FATHER receiving anything divine from the Son?

**So is the Savior God, or is the Saviour a created being, or perhaps you don’t believe Jesus Christ is the Saviour at all.**

How could Jesus Christ overcome the world, if the Father had not been in him, giving the power to do all things? That is how the Son of God is Saviour of the world.

When you place the Father (Spirit) in the Son (divinely created flesh, with a divinely created soul), you have defined Jesus Christ in the simplest of terms.

I think the biggest problem Trinitarians have, is that they just don’t believe that the Father is indeed a Spirit, and is indeed omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. But, Jesus Christ said that to be the case, in his many words found in the book of John.

After his resurrection, he told Mary Magdalene, “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and to your Father; and to my God, and to your God.” Jn 20:17

“touch me not”?? Why? Then upon his return (the same day?) he shows his hands and side to the disciples, minus Thomas. And then, eight days later he encourages Thomas to touch him. The realm of the Father is truly a spiritual realm we just can’t comprehend.


107 posted on 05/27/2016 12:06:50 PM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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