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To: Zuriel
You mean like you ignoring John 14:10 doesn’t exist? That verse is as black and white as they come, but you won’t touch it.
I told you that since the Father is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent, he is right there in Christ empowering him in every way.

(John 14:10)
"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

Oh, I'll touch on it, I'm not scared. Two points, first Jesus is not merely God. Unlike the Father, He is truly God, and truly man.(Son of God & Son of man) He is the God-man. As the God-man, He is perfect man, who worships, honors, obeys, and prays to God the Father. In Fact, the incarnate Son is dependent on the Father.

John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

The apostle Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit gives us the answer as to how the Son could be dependent on the Father if the Son is God.

(Philippians 2:6-8)
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: {7} But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: {8} And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Isaiah 42:1-6?
Prophesying the coming of the God-man(See above for explanation of Son of God Son of man )

Isaiah 42:1-6
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgement to the Gentiles..........Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light unto the Gentiles......”.

Yes that sounds ridiculous, since a sock puppet has no life in himself, nor a will of his own, contrary to the Son’s own testimony.

And yet, this is where your Jehovah Witness/Jewish/Muslim/Unitarianism doctrine leads you.

More (Son of God/Son of man)God-man prophecy

“..the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgement. And he saw that there was no man, and that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.” Isaiah 59:15,16

Then why couldn’t Mary touch him, yet eight days later, he encouraged it? Granted it’s a question that seems off topic, but there was a reason for everything that the Son did.

The text is clear Mary couldn't touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father, but as the resurrected Christ, He would now be free to ascend to the Father, once he did that, (perhaps it was all done in the "twinkling of an eye") He then returned in enough time to encourage the disciples to touch Him.

No problem there. For example, I believe that the apostles were obedient to Matt. 28:19, fully knowing the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, and therefore baptized in the name of Jesus (it’s the name that the Son inherited, and is the name that the Holy Ghost is sent in). Trinitarians have confused that teaching.

You must be using your New World Order Bible again, or adding your own words to it, the preserved Word of God says

(Matthew 28:19)
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

Your sock puppet talks? (you brought up the woeful concept) remember that I brought up Heb. 10:5...”a body thou hast prepared me”. And, Heb. 1:5...”Thou art my Son, this day I have begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?”

That concept was sprung from your "private interpretation" of the word of God.

The glorified Son said, “All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth. “ Matt. 28:19

And how is that?...it’s because He is truly God, and truly man, the God-man.

(Isaiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So, under your ‘separate and distinct’ theory, when does the Son start being the everlasting Father?

He doesn't start, that's the whole case being made to you, Jesus is not a 'created being' and this verse describes the Oneness nature of the Godhead. Christ has always had ALL the same attributes, He is the God-man

Paul opens most of his epistles with this in the greeting: “..from God our Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ...”.

Right, and Paul making clear to you and to all, the separate and distinct part of the nature of God.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Yet you seem to believe that to be separate persons, but still in unity, not as the Son taught throughout the book of John.

I believe it, because the whole of Scripture teaches it, God is one, consisting of three separate and distinct personages.

Paul explains it better than your statement:

I don't disagree, why then don't you believe Paul?

“but unto us there is but one God, the Father, OF whom are all things..” (remember that the Son did not call himself God the Son, but the Son OF God)..”..and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we in him.” 1Cor. 8:6

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and though all, and in you all”. Eph. 4:4-6

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

So, in your ‘separate and distinct persons of God’ theory, why does the Son credit the Father as the source of all divine will, words, doctrine, works, etc.

(John 6:57 John 8:29 John 17:5)

So what do you believe?...Was the separate and distinct Father only active during Christ earthly ministry, since you ascribe all creation to the separate and distinct Son?

The Father and the Son have different roles within the economy of the Godhead. There is equality in nature, but subordination in their personal roles. For instance, the Son submits to the Father, but not vice versa. Therefore, in the above verses, we see that Jesus affirms His relational subordinate role, but He never denies His full deity in any of those verses, and that is where your doctrine falls apart.

116 posted on 05/29/2016 4:32:14 AM PDT by WhatNot (The Gospel doesn't promise the American dream, it promises Eternal life in the Kingdom of God.)
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To: WhatNot

You say this.....

**You must be using your New World Order Bible again, or adding your own words to it, the preserved Word of God says**

...a while after saying this....

**..first Jesus is not merely God. Unlike the Father, He is truly God, and truly man.(Son of God & Son of man) He is the God-man. As the God-man, He is perfect man, who worships, honors, obeys, and prays to God the Father. In Fact, the incarnate Son is dependent on the Father.**

The “God-man”,....another Trinitarian term never used by the Lord, or his apostles.

The Son is truly man, but it’s the Father in him (as he said) that gives him all power in heaven and in earth. AND not only while he made his incarnate appearance, but after as well:

“...also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.” Mark 8:38

And I give you again my response to your scripture quote in the previous post:

**John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.**

“..glorify thou me with thine own self..”.

The Son is telling you right there that it is the Father’s glory that the Son dwells in.

Which answers the following reference you have now given twice, IIRC:

**(Philippians 2:6-8) “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: {7} But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: {8} And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”**

Then you get part of your interpretation of Isaiah 9:6 right....

**this verse describes the Oneness nature of the Godhead.**

...and part of it wrong...

**Christ has always had ALL the same attributes, He is the God-man**

...because,..the verse says ‘shall be’ (not once, but twice), showing positions and titles to be given in future tense.

I brought up the scriptural teaching of water baptism, and how the apostles knew the ‘name’ (singular) that the Lord was referring to, in Matt. 28:19. To which you replied:

**You must be using your New World Order Bible again, or adding your own words to it, the preserved Word of God says(Matthew 28:19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”**

In Acts you find that they baptized in the name of Jesus. Trinitarians apparently feel they have a better understanding than the apostles in the matter, altering the teaching of ‘the whole of scripture’. The following comment you made is a classic example...

**I believe it, because the whole of Scripture teaches it, God is one,**

..Right on that, then...wrong on this:

**consisting of three separate and distinct personages.**

..two of which originate from the Father.

**I don’t disagree, why then don’t you believe Paul?**

Then why don’t Trinitarians baptize as Paul did? The DETAILED accounts show that Paul baptized at least 4 souls in Corinth (1Cor. 1:14,16) in the name of Jesus (verse 13), and likewise about 12 in Ephesus (Acts 19:5). Other detailed accounts in Acts show Peter and Philip baptized in the name of Jesus as well.

Then you give this private interpretation....

**The Father and the Son have different roles within the economy of the Godhead. There is equality in nature, but subordination in their personal roles. For instance, the Son submits to the Father, but not vice versa. Therefore, in the above verses, we see that Jesus affirms His relational subordinate role, but He never denies His full deity in any of those verses, and that is where your doctrine falls apart.**

....while the scriptures prove that the Son of God dwells in God the Father’s glory, and that God the Father’s glory dwells in the Son of God. The Father is the original source of all things divine. The Son is sent from the Father; likewise the Holy Ghost. God the Father has a ‘utility belt’ of unimaginable power.


118 posted on 05/29/2016 9:32:58 AM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: WhatNot
Tisk tisk, I touched yours, now you touch mine. Explain to me how by any stretch of your imagination, your doctrine fits into this verse.

Isaiah 43:10-11)
"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. {11} I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."

119 posted on 05/29/2016 12:21:21 PM PDT by WhatNot (The Gospel doesn't promise the American dream, it promises Eternal life in the Kingdom of God.)
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