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At World Youth Day, Pope’s leading Italian bishop suggests Sodom wasn’t destroyed
Life Site News ^ | 9 August 2016 | Patrick B. Craine

Posted on 08/10/2016 1:58:53 PM PDT by redleghunter

August 9, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – Italian Bishop Nunzio Galantino, a personal appointee of the pope and a prelate who has been extolled as the “prototypical ‘Pope Francis bishop,’” is coming under criticism after delivering a homily to young people at World Youth Day in which he rewrote the story of God’s destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

While the clear meaning of the text is to emphasize God’s hatred of sin, in the bishop’s telling the message of the story is about Abraham’s willingness to emphasize “positive possibilities” and "signs of hope" despite the “misdeeds” of the people of Sodom.

It’s an interpretation that fits less with Catholic tradition than with the grievous admonition from the Extraordinary Synod on the Family that the Church should emphasize the “positive aspects” of mortally sinful lifestyles.

Here is what Bishop Galantino said, according to a translation provided by author and commentator Rod Dreher:

The intense dialogue between God and Abraham in the first reading tell us about prayer. And it’s about prayer that Jesus is asked in the Gospel. A prayer which is not an escape from troubles and responsibility, but a live experience made of listening and answering, through which God creates an authentic relationship and pushes us to be daring. As daring as Abraham’s intercession prayer in favor of Sodom. A city upon which nobody would have bet a dime. His intercession prayer and his will to dare save Sodom. The city is saved because some righteous ones are there, even though a few of them. But the city is saved above all because Abraham, a man of prayer, is not a relentless accuser, he doesn’t speak against but in favor. Abraham, man of prayer, doesn’t point to the misdeeds, but he announces the possibility for something new. Abraham, man of prayer, announces and invites to look at the positive possibilities. Abraham, man of prayer, is a tireless searcher for sign of hopes to present to the Lord for Him to give them value.


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: genesis; popefrances; religiousleft; scripture; sodom
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To: piusv

The Bible doesn’t explicitly describe how Jesus exited the tomb. As you recall, the stone had been rolled away. However, it’s clear from Luke 24 that Jesus appeared and disappeared at will following the Resuurection.

Bottom line: if God’s Word said Jesus exited Mary’s womb miraculously, I’d believe it. But all the Scriptures tell us is that Mary,”gave birth.”


61 posted on 08/12/2016 12:46:02 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter
I did look it up. Google is a marvel.
I just didn't get back to you. I don't go on Google for very long. Some folks stay on it for HOURS but I don't. So, sometimes a day goes by before I respond.
62 posted on 08/12/2016 2:44:57 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain

If you’ve already looked it up, then no doubt you know the verse in question is Colossians 4:10.

What are your thoughts? I.e.: why would God eschew the word, ‘cousins,’ if that was in fact the relationship He intended to convey? Why would God use the word for, ‘brothers,’ if that was NOT the relationship He intended to convey?

Incidentally, take all the time you need to reply. There’s no rush at all.


63 posted on 08/12/2016 6:30:28 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter

Interestingly enough, the Bible says she “brought forth”, not “gave birth”.


64 posted on 08/13/2016 7:32:34 AM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: Fantasywriter

Actually, in Matthew it states that the angel of the Lord rolled back the stone, so although it is not clear from other gospel readings how Jesus exited the tomb, Matthew makes it clear that the angel rolled away the stone after the resurrection.


65 posted on 08/13/2016 7:42:21 AM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: Fantasywriter

But, yes, I do understand where you are coming from: Sola Scriptura.


66 posted on 08/13/2016 7:45:47 AM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: piusv

The Greek word, eteken, which is alternately translated, ‘brought forth,’ or ,’gave birth,’ is the word used to describe ALL births, not just Mary’s. So if you wish to utilize that word to denote special circumstances in Mary’s case, you’d need to apply those same circumstances to all other births. I.e.: the word used is simply the Greek word that conveys giving birth in general; it is not unique to Mary.

I reread all Gospel accounts before I posted yesterday. I was aware that the angel rolled away the stone. I only mentioned that the Bible does not detail Jesus’ egress from the tomb, which happens to be true.

Where I am coming from is Revelation 22. Dire warnings are given to anyone who adds to the words God has revealed. You can take the view that this warning applies to one book only; we’re free to add to or subtract from the words of all the other 65 books as it should suit us. I say that’s playing with fire. I will neither add to nor subtract from any of the words that God has revealed to us. Better safe than eternally sorry.


67 posted on 08/13/2016 12:17:05 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter

This gets back to what constitutes God’s revelation. Those who hold to Sola Scriptura limit God’s revelation to written communication. Catholics recognizes that He also speaks to us through Sacred Tradition..by word of mouth.


68 posted on 08/13/2016 12:25:16 PM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: redleghunter

apparently not , based on the behavior of some priests and the bishops covering up for such a long time


69 posted on 08/13/2016 12:26:37 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: piusv

When Jesus disputed with the Pharisees He never, ever, not even once, based His arguments on the traditions that had been built up around the Scriptures. Rather, Jesus quoted the Scriptures every single time—often precisely to dispute and discredit extra-Scriptural traditions. You can point to no higher authority, nor any better example, than that.


70 posted on 08/13/2016 12:56:40 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: left that other site

All I know is there are a lot of places today that if God doesn’t destroy, he would owe Sodom and Gomorrah an apology.


71 posted on 08/13/2016 12:57:32 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Indeed.


72 posted on 08/13/2016 1:01:20 PM PDT by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: Fantasywriter

He also told Peter that whatever he binds on Earth is bound in Heaven.


73 posted on 08/13/2016 3:19:02 PM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: piusv

True. In Matthew 16 Jesus says this to Peter, and in Matthew 18 He repeats it to all the disciples. However, when given a wide open, golden opportunity to designate Rome as anything special, Jesus took the opposite tack:

John 4:

21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”


74 posted on 08/13/2016 3:54:58 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter

I’m not going to play Bible back and forth with you. I just don’t bother to do the so-called debate with FR non-Catholics because quite frankly it is a waste of my time.

You believe that the only revelation given by God to His Church was through the written word. You limit God and deny oral teachings that He has given to His Church through His apostles and disciples via Sacred Tradition.

Sola Scriptura is heretical.


75 posted on 08/13/2016 5:38:43 PM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: piusv

If God had wanted us to add to His revealed Word, He would not have included such dire, catastrophic warnings against doing so.

If Jesus had intended for Rome to replace Jerusalem as a physical place central to worship, He would have answered the Samaritan woman entirely differently than He did.

These are Biblical facts. Throwing out a couple of Latin words doesn’t change them.

Blessings to you.


76 posted on 08/13/2016 6:30:30 PM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter

That’s just it. Nothing was “added”. It is all part of Divine Revelation.

Blessings to you as well.


77 posted on 08/14/2016 5:48:28 AM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: piusv

Well either words have been added to God’s divine revelation or they haven’t. Please note again Jesus’s words in John 4. He is asked directly, point blank, where people are to worship God. It is a physical location question: in this mountain, or at Jerusalem.

Jesus pointedly rejects the proposition of a physically located focal point of worship. Rather, He says the time has come when worship turns on the state of the heart—in spirit and in truth—as opposed to physical location.

To say that what Jesus REALLY meant was that worship should center in, or have any special relationship, with Rome, is to twist the Lord’s words out of all recognition. In effect, it’s saying Jesus didn’t know what He was talking about—which is blasphemy. Jesus ALWAYS knew what He was talking about.

Claiming additional, Spirit-breathed revelation is problematic enough, but claiming revelation that contradicts Jesus’s own words is mind boggling. Had Jesus intended Rome to be the next iteration of Jerusalem, He’d have given some indication of that. But He put physical locations completely out of the picture when He stated that the new center of worship would be spiritual: I.e.: in spirit and truth.

If you know of any Biblical passage that suggests Jesus’s teachings were incomplete or inadequate, and would need additional divine revelation to be accurate, I’ll take such passages to heart. If not, then Jesus’s words must take absolute precedence over any others.


78 posted on 08/14/2016 11:16:30 AM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter

Are you done now? Because I am.


79 posted on 08/14/2016 11:21:19 AM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: piusv

If you have no reply, then obviously the discussion cannot continue. I’ll leave you with this thought. Not everyone who rejects additional revelation that contradicts God’s Word embraces sola scriptura. From what I have seen, some Catholics throw those words out like a hex, so that they can ignore anything the person thus hexed might be saying. That’s an invalid approach, and does the practitioner no credit.

Blessings.


80 posted on 08/14/2016 11:49:52 AM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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