What Was the Sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?

Stand to Reason ^ | 03/08/2013 | Greg Koukl

[Elsie]

...why did they look upon them with lust and take of them wives.

Why?

It's in the text:

Genesis 6:2 
...the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful...

...and they took them wives of all which they chose.

[Elsie]

The phrase in Hebrew is most often translated beginning.

beginning (40x), principality (8x), corner (2x), first (2x), miscellaneous (6x).

What HEBREW phrase are you referring to?

[Elsie]

First mistake is using a dynamic equivalent translation ...

And what kind of a 'translation' did you use to come with...

So, in Jude, the idea is that the angels did not...?

[Elsie]

We seem to have a disagreement between Strong's and WIKI

 

 

Genesis 6:2  הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙

===============================================================

Job 38:7      אֱלֹהִֽים׃ 

 

[Elsie]

In Genesis it has an extra vowel marker but it is translated the same

HMMMmmm...

[Elsie]

In Genesis it has an extra vowel marker but it is translated the same

HMMMmmm...

---

In the Hebrew Bible, the phrase "sons of the Elohim" occurs in:

• Genesis 6:2 bənê hāʼĕlōhîm (בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים) the sons of Elohim.^{[2][citation needed]}
• Job 38:7 bənê ĕlōhîm (בְּנֵי אֱלֹהִֽים) without the definite article - sons of Elohim^{[citation needed]}

 

 

 

                          ^{Job                                                                                                  Genesis}

  בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים             בְּנֵי אֱלֹהִֽים

[Blogger]

Elsie, dear. You don’t need to teach me about Mormonism. I teach on the cults and even wrote a book on it. Mormonism’s approach to the KJV and the KJV TRANSLATORS are completely different. No similarity at all. So don’t be trying to tag use of the KJV with Mormonism. You’ll lose on that.

[Blogger]

Abraham asked the question. He knew what was at stake. The Angel sex episode is what confirmed to man that Sodom’s destruction was fully justified.

[Blogger]

Sorry, I do not agree
Thank you, Captain Obvious.

It appears to me that a person could only come to this conclusion by reading into the text, from other locations; what is not there.

Where is the word homosexuality ANYWHERE in Scripture in relation to Sodom?

[Gen 13:13 KJV] 13 But the men of Sodom [were] wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

Any mention of homosexuality there? No.

[Gen 18:20-21 KJV] 20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Any mention of homosexuality there? No.

[Gen 19:12-13 KJV] 12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring [them] out of this place: 13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.

Any mention of homosexuality there? No.

[Deu 32:16-18, 20-21, 28-29, 31-32 KJV] 16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange [gods], with abominations provoked they him to anger. 17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new [gods that] came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. 18 Of the Rock [that] begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. ... 20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end [shall be]: for they [are] a very froward generation, children in whom [is] no faith. 21 They have moved me to jealousy with [that which is] not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with [those which are] not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. ... 28 For they [are] a nation void of counsel, neither [is there any] understanding in them. 29 O that they were wise, [that] they understood this, [that] they would consider their latter end! ... 31 For their rock [is] not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves [being] judges. 32 For their vine [is] of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes [are] grapes of gall, their clusters [are] bitter:

Any mention of homosexuality there? No.

[Isa 3:8-9 KJV] 8 For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings [are] against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory. 9 The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide [it] not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

Any mention of homosexuality there? No.

[Jer 23:14 KJV] 14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

Any mention of homosexuality there? No.

[Eze 16:49-50 KJV] 49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw [good].

Any mention there? No.

[Eze 16:56 KJV] 56 For thy sister Sodom was not mentioned by thy mouth in the day of thy pride,

Any there? No.

[2Pe 2:7-8 KJV] 7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed [his] righteous soul from day to day with [their] unlawful deeds;)

Any there? No.

[Jde 1:7 KJV] 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Closest verse you have to mentioning homosexuality, but it is not conclusive. The word is heteros there and is defined as number or quality. When of quality, it is defined as "one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different". Seems like that definition puts us at a stand still. You are reading into Scripture the term homosexuality where it does not exist and is not talked about. Yet, they did something that was an abomination, but there are several sins that qualify for that. For me, the BIBLICAL evidence is that Angels somehow procreated with women in Genesis 6. You may disagree. That is fine. This is an opinion thread, not a thread to trash talk beliefs of fellow Christians by calling them Mormons etc.,

[Blogger]

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/job/1/6/t_conc_437006

Blue letter Bible has the Masoretic text spelled out. The Ha is there. If you turn off the vowel points (which would not have been in the original) there is no difference. The Masoretes added vowel points, but my understanding is it is for pronunciation. I took Hebrew too many years ago to recall what the line after the Qamets means. Josephus and others believed they were angels. There are also extra-biblical texts such as Enoch which are older than Jude and it appears Jude quoted from. These I believe have been corrupted and are no Scripture, so my stance is that insofar as what I'm reading fits with Scripture, then I can consider it. But, if it doesn't, throw it out. Scripture first. Scripture always. If I can't make a strong case from Scripture, then I'm not going to be a proponent of any theory. I do not believe the sons of Seth theory is supported by Scripture. I do believe the angelic theory is. You disagree. That is fine. We'll find out in heaven.

[Blogger]

The phrase for first estate.

[Elsie]

Where is the word homosexuality ANYWHERE in Scripture in relation to Sodom?

Are we really going to be looking for words; or concepts?

[Elsie]

We'll find out in heaven.

Indeed!

[Blogger]

It appears to me that a person could only come to this conclusion by reading into the text, from other locations; what is not there.
Where is the word homosexuality ANYWHERE in Scripture in relation to Sodom?
Are we really going to be looking for words; or concepts?

Both. The angel view was prevalent until Augustine depopularized it. It wasn't the only view. But, you'll find it is not a new one. If the angels were in view in Genesis 6 and the Nephilim (and Rephaim, and Zamzummim, and Anakim, and Amorites)were the result of these illegal unions, then a lot of things in Scripture become more understandable. Anywhere the giants were, for instance, God said wipe them out. Joshua was to wipe them out but some escaped to Gaza and Ashdod etc., Out of that some came Goliath. Genesis 14 helps make sense of Sodom and Gomorrah and why it was more than simple homosexuality that doomed that civilization. It wasn't just the angel sex either. It was an entire mentality in rebellion to God in every way.

[Elsie]

If the angels were in view in Genesis 6 and the Nephilim (and Rephaim, and Zamzummim, and Anakim, and Amorites)were the result of these illegal unions, then a lot of things in Scripture become more understandable.

Yeah... if.

---

 2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters.

His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort,

as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

[mdmathis6]

Strongs doesn’t explain how the “ha” changes the sense of the terms....experts don’t see any difference, just a subtile variance in the available sources from which the king James and Strong’s get their materials. They both seem to be translated into Elizabethan English the same way and in the same tense. Now whether the “ha” means “men who were likened as sons of God” or “fallen angels of God”....show me a source.

To me it’s not as important if it was super spiritual men who fell out of God’s way or it was demonized angels who polluted the human race...what’s important to me was there was an event that so damaged the human genome (and so corrupted our souls) that giants, evil nephilim and ungodly “super men” so filled the Earth with violence that God was grieved with our race and flooded the World as a consequence! It set the stage for history part 2 and the gradual design of our history so that Jesus would come! God is a Spirit...as the Bible says...not an “ancient astronaut”! That part is not open to discussion where I stand nor is the true divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ open to any question.

And that is the real key here...differences of opinion about Genesis 6 whether corrupted men or corrupted angels caused the trouble don’t determine one’s salvation.....it is the belief in the One who sent the Son to fix the problems caused by sinners, demons and Satan. There is going to be a lot of weird stuff revealed in the years ahead and Satan seems determined to make his last desperate gambits....it’s all going to suck for humanity a while...even for Christians prior to the rapture...(whenever one might believe it to occur)!

[Elsie]

Now whether the “ha” means “men who were likened as sons of God” or “fallen angels of God”....show me a source.

I guess I could ask the same.

[Elsie]

I guess I could ask the same.

I KNOW how it happened!!

[mdmathis6]

Thus my point....it comes down to opinion as to the details when it comes to WHAT the “sons of God” really were as we read it in the English;being that the results of “WHAT THEY DID” are established fact in the record as to why God flooded the world. There are arguments to be made for both sides(DEMONS OR MEN FALLEN FROM GRACE) but when it comes down to the salvation of a soul, what is really most important to know...?
“We have heard the joyful sound:
Jesus saves! Jesus saves!
Spread the tidings all around:
Jesus saves! Jesus saves!
Bear the news to every land,
Climb the steeps and cross the waves;
Onward!—’tis our Lord’s command;
Jesus saves! Jesus saves!”

[Elsie]

Yup.

 

     Acts 2:40 
     With many other words he warned them;

     and he pleaded with them,

     “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”

 

Peter WARNED them and he PLEADED with them.