What Was the Sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?

If is what you have, Elsie as well.

What are you suggesting with the quote from Peter? If you are suggesting that I am ignorant or unlearned, I am not. Nor am I unstudied on this particular topic. I've spent many hours comparing Scripture with Scripture. If you do not see it, then fine. Distorting Scripture to try to insult your debate opponent is not a wise or Christian thing to do. Knock it off and try to debate with some civility and Christian charity.

We know from scripture that the Anakim, the Rephaim, and the Amorites were all giant tribes that were targeted for destruction. if you need references that they were giants I can provide. But, I'm assuming you can research this yourself as well. Other tribes like Hittites etc., have been called giants by secular or other biblical researchers, but as I see no evidence in Scripture, I leave them open as either and don't count them in the giant category. That aside, the evidence of a special class of people who were also very tall in stature and very cursed exists in Scripture. Now either God doesn't like tall people or there is something else. God is not an arbitrary genocidal maniac. The angel theory answers this question and is in harmony with the rest of Scripture. The Sethite leaves gaping holes that have to also be explained. Does not mean that Sethite proponents are bad guys. Just means there is more for them to explain.

This matter is not one of soteriology. At least not directly. There is a tangential debate as to whether salvation is possible for a hybrid being. I don’t believe that for the generation of hybrids spawned by the angels that it is. I believe that they, and not fallen angels, are demons. Nowhere in Scripture does it call angels demons. We assume that it is the angels who fell who are demons. I don’t. I base this upon the change of meaning in the word Rephaim within the Old Testament. Still, the whole matter is secondary. But, it is not unimportant.

I believe that to fully understand prophecy and the world you are in, you need to understand Genesis 6. I think the repercussions ring throughout the OT and are alluded to multiple times in the new, including by Christ. It’s important to dig and not just dismiss. Jesus had a message for us concerning the times of Noah and the times of Lot and it’s good not to just gloss over that message.

Satan in his rebellion took a third of angels with him but the Bible doesn’t give us enough info as to the various dominions of fallen angels., demons, ect. Paul just gives a general admonition when he states “ For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[a] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places”.

Christ noted that to cast out some demons, a time of fasting and prayer was needed(in the case of one pernicious demon that his disciples couldn’t cast out). There are lots of old church tradtions, various experiences of Christians and lots of fanciful writings that purport to further explain the various levels of evil entities...but the Bible lists very few and doesn’t explain the hierarchies. Christ speaks of the Spirit of antichrist which had already gone out into the world of which 1John 4 explains how to discern.

Now you speak of days of Noah as being as the days of the coming of the Son of man but that is a separate subject from whether or not it was fallen “pre Christians who fell further from grace who went off and married with the cainites” vs “rebellious angels” that ultimately brought on the wrath of God. Genesis 6 says that “It grieved God that he had made men and that he determined that his spirit would no longer strive with man after 120 years”

So it appears that God puts a lot of blame on mankind regardless of what any rebellious higher beings were doing. Paul says that “He that dwells in us is greater than he(Satan) that is in the world”. God could have helped pre-flood man if they had asked him, despite the fall from grace; Genesis did say(”after this time, men began calling upon the name of the Lord”). Enoch walked with God and so could anyone if they had wished.

I don’t gloss over anything in Genesis 6...but there is a danger in arguing over these things that we gloss over the love that the Father had for this world that he sent his only begotten Son! That is what we dare not gloss over! One can be a “sethite” or a “fallen angel” theorist when it comes to Genesis 6....but one had better not be a Jesus Christ denyer! As in the days of Noah, did not our Lord say that thus would it be in the day of the coming of the Son of man? So if we apply equivalence...are we not seeing increased world violence, blasphemies against God everywhere? We might even see the rise of very demonized humans up to and including the Beast and his false prophet...increased incidents of Nephilim and bizarre human mutations as well as many claiming to be Christ. If the days of the coming of the Son of Man are anything like the days of Noah....then hold onto your helmets of salvation because it is going to get really strange!

Distorting Scripture to try to insult your debate opponent is not a wise or Christian thing to do. Knock it off and try to debate with some civility and Christian charity.

Don't take it so personal.

Do you not agree with Pete that some Scripture is hard to understand?

Do you not agree with Pete that some people distort it?

Now then; what have I distorted?

And, if I HAVE distorted something; where is the evidence that I was trying to INSULT my opponent?

See also my post at 204...God seems to be more upset with man that they wouldn’t respond when he tried “striving” with them in the spirit than he is with the “evil beings” in Genesis 6. Men could have repented; Enoch walked with God...so could others if they had wished; the flood thing could have been prevented.

Jesus had a message for us concerning the times of Noah and the times of Lot and it’s good not to just gloss over that message.

Luke 17:26-29

²⁶“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. ²⁷People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

²⁸“It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. ²⁹But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

Yup. Things were just chugging along as they always had done; then BOOM!

I don’t disagree with you on what is of primary importance. Really don’t disagree with you at all. Church tradition is one thing, but we see the use of Rephaim in Scripture. It is all a theory because the Bible is not explicit. However, when you put several passages together they start to tell a story. External sources also corroborate the story, but you can get it straight from Scripture, or at least key pieces of it.

In terms of Genesis 6 and blaming man, I think God blamed man for his part. But I also think he put the angels in chains in Tartarus. It was a very bad thing that transpired.

I don’t think we will see exactly the same thing today, but I do think some of the genetic manipulation and postulation we see in transhumanism is an attempt to reverse the curse and create man in man’s own image.

We certainly are in for seeing some strange things indeed.

You’ve distorted the words of people arguing with you by comparing them to Mormons and the like, so don’t play coy.

Yes, people distort Scripture. Yes, some parts are hard to understand. The Holy Spirit teaches us as we dig into these truths. Some parts we won’t understand until heaven. On this part, it is a secondary matter that I have a studied opinion over and you have another opinion over. That’s fine. We can disagree.

I’m closer to your views on Genesis 6 anyway...but there is so much the Lord didn’t want to reveal right away that he will reveal closer to the end as alluded to in the book of Daniel (when he was told the meanings of what was told to him will be revealed “at the end”).

There is so much now coming out in archeology that the “tradionalists” are “kicking and scheming”(pun deliberately added) to keep under wraps that point to otherworldly manipulation of humanity and our history. I shan’t be surprised to learn that not only spiritual high places are involved in “the last battles” but interstellar and intergalactic civilizations involved on our material plane...why?

God is going to recreate everything....stars, planets even dimensional planes...so inhabitants of such places will almost certainly have a stake or a side in the battles to come.

Yet...in the end...it might just be little ol’ us and good and bad spiritual beings...and God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit...and no such thing as UFO’s and aliens...just a lot of smoke, mirrors and Satanic deception until Christ puts an end to it!

No arguments with Christ...here... but Genesis explains a bit more in detail about what was going on in the days of Noah, and what was going on in the days of Lot. I think Sodom and Gomorrah were limited contained microcosms of what the world was generally under Noah. (I’ve often wondered about the destruction of Pompeii and Herculaneum by Vesuvius as being of the same type as Sodom’s destruction in terms of God’s planned judgment!) Yes they were all eating and drinking and marrying and just living life large and in utter spiritual darkness....when the end suddenly came upon them!

You’ve distorted the words of people arguing with you by comparing them to Mormons and the like, so don’t play coy.

In this thread?

In this thread?

I've found my replies # 162,167,175,176 deal with MORMONism.

I don't see where I've 'distorted' anything.

Please point out to me and the jury where I err.

I’m done with you Elsie. Have a good evening.

I’m done with you Elsie.