Posted on 04/20/2018 7:54:42 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Pope Francis was tasked on Sunday with answering a challenging question by a little boy, who asked whether his late atheist father, described as a "good" person, is in Heaven.
According to Catholic news site Aleteia, the encounter took place when the Vatican leader was meeting with parishioners of St. Paul of the Cross before celebrating Mass.
A boy identified only by the name Emanuele was invited to whisper a question he had for Francis, which he did, but was too overcome with emotion to repeat it in public.
The pontiff then shared with the parishioners what Emanuele had whispered to him:
"A short time ago, my dad died. He was an atheist, but he had all four of his children baptized. He was a good man. Is Dad in heaven?"
Francis said that it is a "beautiful" thing for a son to call his father "good."
"That man gave a beautiful testimony to his children, for his children to be able to say, 'He was a good man.' It's a beautiful testimony on the part of the son that he has inherited his dad's strength, and also, that he has had the courage to cry before all of us. If that man was capable of raising children like this, it's true, he was a good man."
Getting to the heart of the question, the pope remarked:
"That man didn't have the gift of faith, he wasn't a believer, but he had his children baptized. He had a good heart. And [Emanuele] is doubting whether or not his dad, not having been a believer, is in Heaven. God is the one who decides who goes to heaven. But how does God's heart react to a Dad like that? How? What do you think? ... A dad's heart! God has the heart of a father.
"And faced with a dad, a nonbeliever, who was able to have his children baptized and to give them that courage, do you think that God would be capable of leaving him far from Him?"
Pope Francis then asked the audience whether God abandons His children, to which the public answered, "No."
The pope then told the boy:
"There you go, Emanuele, this is your answer. God surely was proud of your dad, because it's easier to have your children baptized when you are a believer, than to have them baptized when you are not a believer. Surely, this pleased God greatly. Talk with your father, pray to your father."
Most evangelical leaders, including Greg Laurie, have stated that one must believe in Jesus Christ in order to go to Heaven and that good deeds (without Christ) are not enough to get to Heaven.
Pope Francis has made a number of controversial musings, particularly on the question of Heaven and Hell throughout his papacy. In September 2014, he appeared to suggest to atheist Italian journalist Eugenio Scalfari that nonbelievers can indeed go to Heaven as long as they do good.
"I start by saying — and this is the fundamental thing — that God's mercy has no limits if you go to Him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience," the pontiff said at the time.
The Vatican pushed back against the wording of the quoted text a couple of months later, however, arguing that there were mistakes in how it was written up.
"The information in the interview is reliable on a general level but not on the level of each individual point analyzed: this is why it was decided the text should not be available for consultation on the Holy See website," the Vatican said.
More recently, the pope stirred controversy last month when atheist philosopher Eugenio Scalfari claimed that Francis had told that "Hell does not exist" and that "those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear."
The Vatican denied that the pope made such a statement, arguing that the quotes reported by Scalfari was his own "reconstruction" and not the exact words of Francis.
"What is reported by the author in today's article is the result of his reconstruction, in which the literal words pronounced by the Pope are not quoted," said the Holy See, as quoted by the Catholic News Agency.
See post 40; that’s the best response that I can come up with at least.
Of course not. But these are not the only mealy worded responses this Pope has made.
Post 40; that’s the best I can come up with. Ain’t easy; I actually had that same question asked of me once, or similar. Father wasn’t dead, but was atheist.
Now he's telling this poor suffering boy that one is saved by "being good" and No Faith Whatsoever.
He's also said, famously, "Who am I to judge?" -- but on the ONE topic he cannot make a judgment on --- another person's eternal destiny --- he has no problem doing an on-the-spot instant canonization.
In this situation --- weeping, grieving boy; audience of little children; and the world world listening via the media --- he could have just said,
"The one thing I know for certain, is that God loves all the world; and your father's soul is in the hands of a Savior who wishes to save and always judges fairly.-- and then he needn't have made a judgment (which he isn't qualified to make anyway) about the eternal destination of Emanuele's father's soul. If the dad turned to the Lord in the end like the Good Thief on the Cross, he is heaven-bound. If not, not. But this would not be the time or the place to speculate him in front of the weeping boy."Children, will God judge fairly?"
"YES!"
"Children, is God good and merciful?"
"YES!"
"Children, is Emaneuele's father in good hands?"
"YES!"
"This is why we must always repent of our sins, and return to the embrace of Our Heavenly Father. Remember to pray for sinners."
Assumes facts not in evidence, yer honor. I have no such knowledge.
Beautiful.
Exactly!
Ealgeone, that is a serious, but admittedly common misunderstanding.
Canon Law
DELICTS AGAINST RELIGION AND THE UNITY OF THE CHURCH (Cann. 1364 - 1369). Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned ...We're not obliged to "do what the Pope says," ---the Pope, this Pope, this present Pope --- but rather to follow the Papal Magisterium. That means the authentic teaching of all the Popes as a single coherent teaching, not the teaching of a single incoherent pope. If he contradicts his predecessors, hr's outside of the Papal Magisterium and his teaching is inauthentic. We're bound to the papal consensus, as it were, which cannot contradict Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.
The present, surreal situation is this: a pope contradicting all his predecessors: a pope opposing the Papal Magisterium.
We're now in the struggle of figuring out how to correct this erratic man, until God removes him from the Apostolic See.
Tell him the Truth; especially since he's already a young baptized Catholic.
Tell him only God knows where the deceased souls are, but the boy can still pray for his father's salvation.
From Bergoglio's orchestrated answer, he believes in neither Purgatory nor Hell.
The bottom line is, we are forbidden from judging things we cannot know with moral certainty, e.g. a persons interior disposition (the state of their soul) and a soul's eternal destination.
We cannot judge this because we cannot know it. These things are in God's hands entirely.
The best thing to do in the circumstances, I think, is to affirm the goodness of God. Such as:
God gives mercy for mercy.
Any finer-tuned judgments are not appropriate. The boy's father might have turned in trust toward God in his last earthly thought. Charitably, we should all pray that he would have done so.
Check out #44
Roman Catholicism has more rules than Carter has liver pills. The Pharisees would have loved y’all.
Unbelievable idiocy. Only when the Vicar of Christ speaks ex cathedra in collaboration with the bishops that a teaching becomes infallible. Otherwise the Pope’s comments are open to disagreement.
Wow. Your ignorance on this topic is overwhelming. We can know if you gain Heaven or Hell. It’s in the New Testament. Perhaps you should read it.
I know y’all don’t like Unam Sanctam. There is no wiggle room under that proclamation. You have to be subject to the pope. If it’s wrong then the pope was in error. Are you prepared to say that?
That's a point I find difficult to challenge.
Matthew 22:37-40
He said to him,
“You shall love the Lord, your God,
with all your heart, with all your soul,
and with all your mind.
This is the greatest and the first commandment.
The second is like it:
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”
That should clear things up a bit.
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!” He said, “Nobody loves me.” I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”
He said, “Yes.” I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?” He said, “A Christian.” I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.”
I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”
He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.” I said, “Me, too!”
Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.”
I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.
Christianity and Roman Catholicism. There is a difference.
We are all surprised Frank didn’t tell the boy there is no heaven.
If you are saying that we living humans can actually know if a given person has gone to heaven or to hell, then I would like the source for that.
If you did not mean that, I apologize for misreading you.
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