Posted on 03/30/2002 7:53:37 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Yes, the bible has always been too boring for RCs hence their endless supplementation.
We finally just reconciled ourselves to whatever God desired, and you know how that worked out.
SD
OBTW Dave, sodomy is also forbidden by G-d !
Why does your corporate religion require celibacy ? I can't find where it is required by G-d.
Do you think that the requirement for corporately-mandated celibacy produces an environment for sodomy ?
1Co. 2:4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and
persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's
power,
1Co. 2:5 so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on
God's power.
chuck <truth@Y'shuaHaMashiach>
"You then are the body of Christ. Every one of you is a member of it"
"you have 'put on' Christ"
"incorporated into Christ"
Not even "comes close"?
Right. And instead of immediate consequences, we get more complicated consequences.
SD
Nobody over here is going to hit the abuse button you, we just laugh at ya.
Havoc is a menace and all of you who enable him are as bad.
history_matters: There really will be a section of Purgatory just for you guys who will be whining "But it ain't Scriptural! Why are we here?!?"
Why should anybody keep enabling YOU?
BigMack
Which of course will continue to be the dividing line between the "traditional faiths" on the one hand - Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Anglicanism - and the "bible-only faiths" on the other. I doubt father_elijah believes at all that there needs to be explicit Scriptural evidence for every element of faith. Every disagreement here comes down to this essential divide between us.
Why don't you check with the man you think you're defending and see what he says? I haven't met a priest that condones that kind of intentional insult.
My apologies to Father Elijah.
Regarding this statement of yours:
Now name me any empire since Christ that both Put Christians to death and because of the way that empire was structured, also ordered other authorities under their jurisdiction to do the same
Ever hear of WW2 Germany? Their zeal for putting Christians to death is well documented, in addition to Jews, and this was done by authorities under their jurisdiction such as Vichy France and the puppet government of countries such as occupied Poland. So based on the specific sentence you wrote, you argument is not valid.
Want another example? Check out the Soviet Union, especially during the years of Stalin. They ordered their subject countries to detain Christians, killing many, and sending many to gulags.
Prove otherwise. It's not like history happened in a vacuum. If it was the Krishans I'd say it was the Krishans. But studying History points to one place. Prove me wrong. This is what we call - not a hollow charge or slur; but drawing conclusions based on the facts before us. If the facts don't do you any favors, the way to fix that is to find the facts that do and get in line with them - not whine that the facts paint you in a bad light. LOL.
I suggest you consider your own words! :)
True, but wasn't Jewish tradition, adding on to the laws God set forth in scripture, exactly what Christ objected to?
I heartily agree with your well written observation.
No! Some posters cannot respond to facts, logic, reasoning and faith. Once you identify those posters, you can be better prepared. Look at the wonderful discussion on saints. There is Scriptural references for saints (and being living), along with angels and saints and what our responsibilities are.
Facts, logic, reasoning and faith are the best methods to advance the Catholic Church beliefs. You know you have been successful when the arguments turn personal or your requests for clarification go unanswered. Hang in there!
Duh. Did I say otherwise?
The point was that we preach against sodomy, even if we sin. The Protestant/Non-Catholic non-denominational/Baptist/whatever Christians have stopped teaching that contraception is sodomy.
Why does your corporate religion require celibacy ? I can't find where it is required by G-d.
It is recommended by Paul. It is not a dogma, we do no teach that it is required by God. It is not unchangeable. It requires it because experience has led us to the position where we believe a man can devote himself completely to God's service without the hassle of a family.
Do you think that the requirement for corporately-mandated celibacy produces an environment for sodomy ?
No. I think an environment where homosexuality is accepted and official celibacy policy is winked at produces an environment for sodomy.
SD
Not even close. When I talk to Mary in the kingdom of God I'll ask her if I should consider her my mother. I'm sure she'll blush and humbly say "Who taught you that nonsense?".
The Roman Empire was directly responsible. But it did not Order other Nations to do it's dirty work. It did that itself. Thus they martyred, they didn't cause anyone else to martyr on their behalf. being guilty of the blood of a saint presumes a saint was put to death and that one was only secondarily responsible. If one doesn't directly kill a saint, one has not martyred them. If they compell another government to do so, that government is guilty of the martyr; but, the compellor is guilty of the blood as well. This is true with the Holy Roman Empire in which the Roman Catholic Government both martyred christians for their non Romanist beliefs and compelled the governments of Spain France and Germany to do likewise.
Show me another that fits that mold. This is a restatement of something that has been before you at another time. At that time, you and the rest of the crew clammed up and never retorted with anything other than rhetoric. The challenge didn't go away - just the noise from your side. The challenge stands unanswered. It isn't a charge based on nothing. It's based solidly on fact. And I'd be happy to discuss it all you want.
But I won't sit back and be slurred by the likes of your doc with the bad bedside manner over making a conclusion based on Fact rather than claims.
Certainly it's one of the things that Christ objected to. I believe that Christ Himself healed this problem by instituting His own Holy Tradition, founded not just on the preservation of His Holy Scriptures (a critical element of Holy Tradition, but a part of Tradition nonetheless) but on His continuing presence and guidance of His Church.
Yeah, me too!:)
Becky
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