Free Republic

“We are neither Jew nor Gentile - or have you forgotten the scriptures?”

The answer is yes, so why do you want to cast dispersions on someone of a different religion? The catholic church did not come to be til some time after Christ ascension. So what were those christians called til the catholic church came to be?

I asked you pointedly about “orthodox believers”. I don’t understand why you have such disdain for believers of Christ who don’t belong to the catholic church? Now I answered your question. How about answering my question that you skirted around? That’s rich, attacking me personally about “emoting like a schoolgirl”. Now if I were catholic, and you said that to me, I’d be whining to the mods that you’re making it personal, but I’m not. I am going to take this in stride considering I’m a christian who does know that Christ has, despite you, included me in the Lamb’s Book of Life. I don’t believe Christ wanted only catholics saved, but the whole world. I will continue this endeavor regardless how you feel about my “not being in the Body of Christ” because I know I am. I am going to shake the dirt off my sandals now.

Hey Vlad, I’m still waiting for that verse in the Bible that talks about “orthodox believers”. Have you found it yet? No, I know you said it’s “everywhere” but I’d like specifics please. Or just explain what “orthodox believer” means, it could be the difference between life and death (for those of us who are non-catholics, that is)....literally.

Vlad, will you please quote the verse in the Bible where it says “orthodox believers only”? Is this scriptural or just something some Priest said that makes it so. I don’t put my faith in a human, I put my faith in God, for He alone can save. I didn’t think you could answer my question because now you avoid it. This confirms why “religion” is divisive. Christ never intended His Church to be a stumbling block for the lost or searching. Christ is my Saviour and I’m not catholic or protestant.

Wow. I was genuine when I asked “how you were”. You’re hatred of anything non-catholic has blinded you. You and I went at it, and I, remember I, apologized to you. Seems that something so irrelevant as Christ commanding us to “love our enemies” (which, obviously I am in your eyes), is not meant for catholics, just those pesky heretics. Christ commanded you, as well as I, to love one another.

You can hold one heck of a grudge. Christ founded the christian faith, and those followers of Christ are His body, despite what you think.

You still didn’t answer my questions. Is it that you won’t or is it that you can’t? I only asked two question.

I’m sorry I hit another nerve. Why don’t you, instead of attacking us heathens, try and woo us to Christ? Because, apparently, we need it.

“No. You are making a common mistake. I NEVER include those who believe in heresy as in the Body. When Christ create the Body she only contained orthodox believers. There were no Protestants and would be no Protestants for another 1500 years. When the NT speaks of all believers being in the Church that must be understood as reflective of a time when there were no Protestants.”

First off, Hi Vlad, how are you?

Let me see if I understand your correctly. Protestants do not belong to the “Body of Christ” because their religion, which you claim as heretical, was not created yet. This same logic can be applied to catholics because the Catholic church had not been created yet. So we should all be Jewish because they were the first christians. Where in the bible does it say that only “orthodox believers” belong to the body of Christ? I mean in THE BIBLE, you know, God’s Final Word.

Why would you want to cause division among fellow believers, who believe that Jesus is our Saviour? And he’s the only Way? Why not embrace ALL believers whether they be methodist, protestant or catholic? Isn’t that what Christ commands us to do? To love one another?

Bummer.

“...with his candidacy for Governor in 2010.”

He can run for Governor again?

“Why is that choice confined to sometime in your lifetime?”

Because there’s only one physical death, after that your soul lives on, and then it’s too late to say “can I have another chance?”

We don’t rely on piety for our salvation. No one is “good enough” to get to heaven. I don’t believe out of fear of hell, I believe because God loved us enough to send His Son to die in our place. All we have to do is believe that He is our Saviour. It’s not rocket science or having to be good enough. I’m far from perfect but am forgiven.

“Some of these scholars just seemed a bit too keen on the idea of ‘heaven’ as an exclusive club for the few who met their own particular standards of piety and correct theological interpretation to be considered ‘christian’ by anyone’s standards....”

I’m not too clear on what you’re trying to convey. Did Christ lie when He said, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life”? Or “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father but by Me?

“Er, no not really. That’s a bit like saying a woman who walked down a dark ally in a short skirt made a free choice to get raped. It might be the consequence of their choice, but they still didn’t choose to get raped.”

Your analogy escapes me. Are you implying that there’s an alternate route to God? Yes, one could assume that that woman’s choice walking down that dark alley could get her in a heap of trouble, likewise denying Christ as your saviour is going to have consequences....dire consequences, it’s a choice everyone is going to make sometime in their lives.

“There is no justice in finite sin being punished with infinite judgement, and it would take nothing short of a spiritual lobotomy to love a God that would send even the likes of Adolf Hitler to a place like Hell for the rest of eternity, never mind those who simply died ‘without Jesus’.....”

What you are failing to comprehend is that God doesn’t send anyone to hell. Humans make the choice....it’s called “free will”. God doesn’t do it, they do it.

“I wonder how these idiots spin Sodom and Gomorrah.”

Didn’t you hear? The homosexuals were only being inhospitable to those angels.

“If I had to I’d kill to protect my family from harm, even non-lethal harm (e.g. from physical or sexual assault) would I then be subject to the death penalty?”

This is not murder, this is self-defense. If it wasn’t okay to defend yourself or loved ones, why did God send the Israelites out to do battle so much? They were defending themselves.

“I always found it interesting that Luke 2:8 gives us “Now there were shepherds in that region living in the fields and keeping the night watch over their flock.”

Sheep were typically penned up at night or driven into caves. In the spring, however, the shepherds kept them out in the fields because they were birthing lambs (don’t forget Jesus was the “lamb of God).

So unless it was springtime the shepherds would have been home in bed rather than watching over their sheep.”

I have a tendency to agree with you. It might just be that Christ was conceived on Dec 25, rather than born on that date. I wonder how many shepherds would be out watching their flocks in the winter time? It’s an interesting theory. I don’t know enough about all that went on at different times of the year to know for sure. But if Israel has the same seasons as we do in this hemisphere, then it would make sense that He was born at the end of summer.

Again, I don’t know enough to make a real educated guess, but it does make for an interesting debate. It’s one of those mysteries we’ll find out someday.

“The solution is simple (no joke): The legislature needs to put together a budget which HIKES taxes.... on the districts of those legislators who vote for the tax hike. Problem solved.”

You may be on to something there. A most excellent idea. Now how do we bring this idea to fruition?

How folks like Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi, Waters etc. keep getting voted back into office is beyond my comprehension skills, except the “dumbing down” in our schools has been very successful.....more’s the pity.

“Christian is a gentile term, to be used only when speaking of gentiles, unless you are a gentile turned messianic Jew.”

The disciples were Jewish and they were followers of Christ (which is what a christian is). Christ started the christian faith. Did that make Him any less of a Jew? Then again, maybe I’m missing your point.

“Now go through the Gospels and try to reconcile those with traditional Judaism.”

Matt 5:17-19 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Not you necessarily, but there are some here who come across as anti-semitic, I don’t think that would please God since they are His chosen people. Jesus made examples of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites. He also adhered to Jewish observances, duh, He was a Jew.

I also don’t understand why people here can’t handle a christian Jew calling themselves Messianic Jews. Heck, they are completed Jews.

“The Church is clear on many things. This is one of them.”

I beg to ask what is “The Church”? Are you talking about the body of believers? Christ’s Church?

“Not just prose - they are Scripture. Why would you ask? Are you unsure? Or are you of the opinion that they supersede the Word of God?”

Is not the WHOLE Bible the Word of God?

“My heart does go out to them; imagine trying to reconcile Jesus with traditional Judaism.”

Wasn’t Jesus a Jew?

What is a Judaizer? I keep hearing the term but don’t know where it comes from.