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Posts by Prodigal Daughter

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  • Favorite Countries Song,Tell us your Favorite-USA-Italy-etc-in-Title,Lyrics~Freeper Canteen~10-8-09

  • Interesting choice of words in Obama school address.

    09/08/2009 10:19:29 AM PDT · 60 of 60
    Prodigal Daughter to COUNTrecount

    My thoughts exactly! Code to co-religionists with some distortions for the rest of us.

    DAILY PRAYER TIMES
    JAKARTA, DKI JAKARTA, INDONESIA
    Latitude: S 6deg 10.45min Longitude: E 106deg 49.75min

    Wednesday September 9, 2009
    (19 Ramadan 1430)
    Local Time: 12:16:13 AM (Jakarta)

    Fajr
    (Dawn) 4:40

    Shorook
    (Sunrise) 5:50

    Zuhr
    (Noon) 11:50

    Asr
    (Afternoon) 3:07

    Maghrib
    (Sunset) 5:51

    Isha
    (Night) 7:01

  • EXPLODING DEBT LOAD FOR BUNCH OF FREELOADERS

    02/27/2009 6:17:41 AM PST · 26 of 46
    Prodigal Daughter to seatrout; drifter
    Excuse the long reply: With Obama's crime-unity organizers, Pell grants will be expoited more than ever for freeloaders, fraudsters, pedophiles, illegal aliens...and now Hamas members who can come to the US to study for free. Maybe they will pretend to go to school as a cover while they spy and commit other crimes and send more money to their terrorist buddies back home.

    Although I can't find it writing, I heard on the Joyce Kaufman show that governor crist invited Obama to send 10 to 20 thousand Palestinian "refugees" to Florida. So I guess they can use some of the stimulus money to set up schools for Palestinian refugees like the Caribe center has been set up for Haitian and Cuban immigrants.

    It is outrageous that recent Cuban immigrants, often hand selected by the Cuban government since Clinton helped put the Cuban lottery system into place, get to go to college for free. They should flip burgers, wash dishes in the early morning and work as security guards at night like my Cuban born husband had to do to put himself through college and graduate school. I thought they wanted to take on jobs that Americans wouldn't do? They can waitress, work in the college cafeteria, student teach, etc., to get through school and work extra jobs to pay off student loans the same as the majority of hardworking Americans have to do.

    The demoncrats will extend eligibility to illegal aliens which is what they wanted to do with the DREAM act. They can continue to provide Pell grants to pedophiles and other prisoners who have been reported to cancel their classes and use the Pell grant money to buy CDs, clothes, (drugs?). Meanwhile, Pell grant monies are denied to graduate students and most middle class students because there is a finite amount of money to go around.

    Also, if you are middle class, or part of Obama's nouveau riche, YOUR tuition will increase to make up for the increase in Pell grant students.

    1998 testimony before congress re: Pell grant fraud

    Pell grant money goes to sex offenders Do you think that their victims qualify for a Pell grant? Probably not.

    Nancy Pelosi backs tuition breaks for illegal aliens (including pell grants)

    Read Senator Sessions congressional arguments against the DREAM act and you will see WHY the group of marxists Lt.Col. Allen West so aptly named The PC Club have put Pell Grants in the stimulus package. According to Senator Sessions, self employed illegal aliens are given legal alien status for 6 years during which they can apply for citizenship. Self employment can mean that they only work ONE day a year!

    He also said "...Under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965, as amended, legal permanent residents and certain other eligible noncitizens receive Fed- eral student financial aid, including Pell grants and Stafford student loans. That is part of the 1965 act. The committee bill will add illegal students, illegal alien volunteers, and illegal alien military members to the list of people eligible, by changing, heir immigration status to that of a legal permanent resident. This change in status would make them eligible for Federal financial aid. Pell grants and Stafford loans currently comprise 85 percent of postsecondary student aid available to citizens and eligible non- citizens. In fiscal year 2002, 8.8 percent of the individuals receiving Pell grants were eligible noncitizens over 380,000 people."

    "We want to help people and be generous. But if you are in an illegal status, I do not see why there is an obligation to give the same extra benefits that you do to those who are lawfully here."

    "Pell grants. The Federal Pell Grant Program is the single largest source of grant aid for postsecondary education funded by the Federal Government. There is already a current fiscal year Pell grant shortfall of over $2.5 billion. We have done a lot of different things to try to get money as high as we can get it this year. The fiscal year 2003 estimated program costs are approximately $12.5 billion. The annual appropriations is $11.4 billion. Now we want to open up Pell grants to illegal aliens? Although Pell grants are a discre tionary program, the cost of increasing the number of eligible recipients in an award year is considered direct spend- ing, when the appropriations and max- imum grant award for that year are al- ready set in law and a payment sched- ule is published. Thus, we could be fac- ing a budget point of order with this bill. In other words, since in a number of these instances the right to have a Pell grant for qualifying persons is an entitlement, making more people eligi ble for this entitlement could subject this bill to a budget point of order. The Congressional Budget Office esti mates that 58,500 additional Pell grants would have been given within 1 year if last year’s DREAM Act had passed, with an average grant being $2,420. How many people do not get a dime who try to send their kids to college, out of State maybe, people who have worked hard all their life, middle-class Ameri- cans? They do not get a dime. But somebody who is here illegally gets $2,400? I do not think that is fair." Sen. Sessions, 2006

  • Police Stun Gun Kills Teen with Bible

    11/02/2006 9:24:32 PM PST · 132 of 141
    Prodigal Daughter to takenoprisoner; All
    KMOZ St. Louis has reported that the Jerseyville Police has admitted the kid was already handcuffed when he was tasered. KMOZ also reported that "Witnesses say officers then tasered the teen at least twice and repeatedly punched him."
  • Police Stun Gun Kills Teen with Bible

    11/02/2006 6:45:41 PM PST · 126 of 141
    Prodigal Daughter to Jorge

    In border-lingo, "Ay yay yay!"

    I was illustrating the absurdity of the ratio of one teenage kid on a corner all by himself and six (or more) cops called to subdue him. I thought you had to have a sense of humor to be a freeper, guess not.

  • Police Stun Gun Kills Teen with Bible

    11/02/2006 6:19:08 PM PST · 124 of 141
    Prodigal Daughter to Jorge

    Why six cops in the first place to restrain a kid crying out I Love Jesus over and over? I could understand two going to check him out, but SIX?!!?! No wonder meth is taking over the midwest, SIX cops in a city of 20,000 called to go out and taze the teenage street preacher.

  • Police Stun Gun Kills Teen with Bible

    11/02/2006 5:36:21 PM PST · 119 of 141
    Prodigal Daughter to BeHoldAPaleHorse

    No, BeHoldAPaleHorse, I didn't mean this kid, I meant children 13 and under, did they ever "tune up" kids that young? And okay, please don't include in the hypothetical an example of a 13 year old, 200 pound wrestler with a gun to his grandmother's forehead, as an example of a "child", I mean average looking kids of normal stature and normal weight.

  • Police Stun Gun Kills Teen with Bible

    11/02/2006 11:27:01 AM PST · 109 of 141
    Prodigal Daughter to takenoprisoner; MortMan
    Excellent points both of you!

    Sadly more and more police forces are getting militarized or are working under unchecked corruption where only the bullies get promoted. In other cases, they are just getting lied to. In Putnam County FL after 12 children were tased and a Marine was wrongly tased in front of his house, this was reported to have happened at a Town Hall meeting when Panel faces heat after tazing incident

    ---------------
    Rob Reisinger, the training officer for the Leon County Sheriff's Department said he has tased over 200 people and been tased on several occasions.

    Reisinger said he believes the effects on the body are minimal at worst.

    "It will not disrupt the heart. It will not disrupt the pacemaker," Reisinger proclaimed.

    "Rake your feet across the carpet a couple of times and touch something medal. That's approximately 50,000 watts."

    When the eruption of laughter that ensued following Reisinger's comments finally subsided, someone seemingly more qualified to comment on such a matter rebutted his statement.
    --------------------

    Even ignorant born agains like me know that 50,000 watts is either a typo or a mispeak, but that aside, by Reisinger's definition, "Help, I've just tased myself"!)

    But no wonder Reisinger made a fool of himself and they've been tasing so many children. In the article, Experts debate stun guns Gary Bowling, a training officer for the Putnam County Sheriff's Office, said he left a Taser seminar thinking UL endorsed Tasers. He said the UL name convinced him that he could ``Taser a 4- to 400-year-old, if necessary.''

    ''I trust UL,'' Bowling said. ``I treat that chart as gospel.''

    When told by The Herald that UL had not tested the product, Bowling said, ``That chart's misleading. I looked at that and I thought UL had tested Tasers and put that dot on the chart.''

  • Police Stun Gun Kills Teen with Bible

    11/02/2006 10:28:42 AM PST · 107 of 141
    Prodigal Daughter to WildHorseCrash

    So you don't have to over-analyze my question above, let me be more specific, a child is defined by 13 and under.

  • Police Stun Gun Kills Teen with Bible

    11/02/2006 10:24:24 AM PST · 104 of 141
    Prodigal Daughter to WildHorseCrash

    Do you think it is ever justified to use tasers on children?

  • Police Stun Gun Kills Teen with Bible

    11/02/2006 7:55:01 AM PST · 101 of 141
    Prodigal Daughter to WildHorseCrash
    I wish there was a way to add online audio to my reply, so you could hear me shouting for Jesus now. And now to further add fuel to the fire of your stereotype: Pr 15:14 ¶ The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.
  • Police Stun Gun Kills Teen with Bible

    11/02/2006 6:12:45 AM PST · 96 of 141
    Prodigal Daughter to WildHorseCrash
    I imagine.....

    That's your problem.

  • Police Stun Gun Kills Teen with Bible

    11/02/2006 5:20:48 AM PST · 92 of 141
    Prodigal Daughter to WildHorseCrash
    No. The story has been reported worldwide because this isn't the first such story about tasers and the Bible is an important part of the story because he wasn't carrying a weapon and was probably acting like your average street preacher. Don't know if you have ever lived in a large metropolitan area and come across one on the street. Some I have seen act mentally deranged.

    This kid might have had biological issues (as has been reported in the articles you say are strong on hype). Ha, since when has the lamestream media been sympathetic to Judeo-christian religious types?

    Instead of calling people who are troubled by what has been reported thus far, "cop haters" "paranoics" and people with "christian martyr complex" did you every stop to wonder like many of us are, why they needed TWO taser shots? Yeah, you can call me judgmental and ignorant, it still appears to me to be bully SISSY police work.

  • Police Stun Gun Kills Teen with Bible

    11/01/2006 1:08:40 PM PST · 84 of 141
    Prodigal Daughter to WildHorseCrash
    He may have been a Baptist, he may have been bipolar, and if had been holding a satanic bible crying out to lucifer, it still has the appearance of bully police work.

    push the buttons of Christian paranoiacs..

    Not even trying to hide your bigotry, huh? Did you learn that phrase in the academy?

  • Police Stun Gun Kills Teen with Bible

    11/01/2006 7:03:42 AM PST · 79 of 141
    Prodigal Daughter to Types_with_Fist
    I read this comment on Telegraph:

    to B, CT Go watch the news video from the local St. Louis Channels- eye witnesses said the boy was beaten- his head smashed into the side of a squad car, he was handcuffed, on his knees- then tasered. They did not call in any type of help from a local counseling center that has psychologists on staff. You are obviously not from here or have lived away long enough to put this PD to the back of your mind- because you are ignorant to the workings of this corrupt PD. As for making assumptions about being on drugs- at least wait until the toxicology reports come in. His death may or may not be directly related to being tasered twice- but it sure didn't help him any after being beaten.

    Comments --------------------------

    Sure is a good thing that Jeb Bush's son didn't confront cops with tasers when he was intoxicated and resisting arrest. Jeb Bush's son resisted arrest when intoxicated on a street corner in TX.

    Good thing for Jeb's son that he didn't get drunk in Jerseyville. Then again, he wasn't crying for Jesus. If Roger Holyfield had been crying out to allah and carrying a koran, they probably would have called the muslim chaplain and treated him with some respect.

    Mt 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    Mt 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

  • First TBN drops Lindsey, now Lindsey drops TBN

    01/05/2006 12:53:41 PM PST · 188 of 191
    Prodigal Daughter to TommyDale; Cecily

    LOL great point TD! And why didn't Joyce Meyer just pray for a younger looking face instead of using ministry money for plastic surgery?

  • First TBN drops Lindsey, now Lindsey drops TBN

    01/05/2006 9:51:04 AM PST · 184 of 191
    Prodigal Daughter to Matchett-PI

    I'm sorry I misunderstood you! Got the clarified meaning, thanks!

  • First TBN drops Lindsey, now Lindsey drops TBN

    01/05/2006 9:21:00 AM PST · 180 of 191
    Prodigal Daughter to TommyDale
    My grandparents took me to see Kathryn Kuhlman when I was a kid. I once went to see Benny Hinn (I know, right?). I later got really sick of an uncurable disease. My last straw with TBN was when the Doctor and the Word program started taking love gifts and said they would send info on how to pray specifically for specific diseases to those people who became love partners. I said, What?!?!?!!!! (some people on this thread might not see anything wrong with that)

    Funny thing, the Lord healed me after lots of repentance and I stopped praying for healing, but rather to be closer to Him, whether sick, dead or well. Benny Hinn wasn't needed at all! And I thought the protestants were supposed to do away with intermediaries.

    A woman at the Messianic congregation that I know, was healed of cancer after being given a few months to live and after telling the Lord she was fine with Him taking her home or healing her even though she would rather be healed to spend time with her kids, she was going to accept His will. Some Christians are healed and some are not.

    It's not easy accepting His will if it goes contrary to ours. And especially if you watch TBN where "OUR wills be done" and if one doesn't receiving healing, a new car, a husband, a new job, etc., etc. then "you don't have enough faith". And all that favor that Osteen and Warren say is supposed to get Christians a good parking space and a good deal on shopping. What concern for worldly things. What blasphemy! They forget the saints who have been martyred.

    Isa 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

    Ps 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

  • First TBN drops Lindsey, now Lindsey drops TBN

    01/05/2006 9:14:22 AM PST · 179 of 191
    Prodigal Daughter to Matchett-PI

    I disagree about not using reason with the emotionally immature. I think back to when people planted seeds with me, especially when I wasn't a believer, some were met with offense and ridicule, but it sunk in eventually. If the church and the saints taught apologetics like it/they should, most people would have a clue rather than be led like sheep to the slaughter in this lukewarm church age. Are people not supposed to expose false teaching?

  • First TBN drops Lindsey, now Lindsey drops TBN

    01/05/2006 7:58:16 AM PST · 173 of 191
    Prodigal Daughter to TommyDale
    LOL, I'll go on: I remember when I was a baby Christian watching Fred Price one evening for the first time and thinking he was brave in that he spoke against the doctrine of the black Muslim movement and specifically Louis Farrakhan, after someone gave him a video taped secretly from a Farrakhan meeting where LF said something unscriptural about Jesus Christ. Fred Price had a 4 week (4 evenings) teachings against Islam, I think I watched two of them.

    This is the same Fred Price who said that God can't do anything unless we give him permission! And said:

    “I’ve got 25 million dollars in my financial statement, free and clear I have no debt, I live in a 25 room mansion, I have my own 6 million dollar yacht, I have my own private jet and I have my own helicopter and I have 7 luxury automobiles so I never get board having to drive the same car more than one time in any given week” Fred Price expose

    Regarding his stance against Islam and his truth mixed with lies:

    2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    But the more people watch TBN, the less time they read for themselves.

  • First TBN drops Lindsey, now Lindsey drops TBN

    01/05/2006 7:15:09 AM PST · 168 of 191
    Prodigal Daughter to TommyDale; LS; cmsgop; All
    Well, Jesus or a follower of his wouldn't invite a murderer to his studio and tell the audience that he was going to read the material that the murderer left with him. But Paul said he was going to read the Islamic material that Yassar Arafat, his guest, left with him.

    And Jesus or one of His followers wouldn't reward a supposed liar with $425,000.

    It was reported to me by a friend that Tammy Faye Baker was on TBN recently and one of Paul Crouch's son said they attended a homosexual event to mingle with sinners and then complained about those judgmental Christians who attended the event to hold up signs about sin. Most likely seems that Hal is wrong about the Muslims being the ones who will kill Christians and think they are doing a favor to God, it looks to me that it will be the false Christians killing the true Christians.

    A big controversy erupted the the Bahamas over Juanita Bynum's visit their in 2003 and her speaking fees of $25,000 and $125,00 respectively. Pastor Cedric Moss wrote some articles, posted below, about preachers for hire.

    This didn't even mention the allegations that Juanita Bynum was involved in adultery with a bishop who left his wife and kids to announce 3 months later that he was going to marry Bynum. If he had biblical grounds for divorce, I haven't heard them.

    I watched her million dollar wedding on TBN (you can purchase it for yourself for $19.99) with disgusted amazement as she showed off her wedding ring to the wedding party (John Hagee present!) her 7.76 carat diamond and even photos of the jacuzzi of the honeymoon suite was posted online (in yo' face, you thrown-away-old-wife-and-kids).

    And doesn't even mention the controversy about TD Jakes and Bynum being oneness which would be another Jesus, contrary to the Lord Jesus of John 1:1 and other places in the Bible:

    I used to watch TBN everyday and Bynum WAS my favorite, but I'm no longer deceived, praise His Holy Name!

    Bahamas newspaper article for background to the controversy:
    PASTOR CEDRIC MOSS ON FOREIGN PREACHERS
    Bishop Neil Ellis, the Pastor of the Full Gospel Fellowship Church in The Bahamas called Mt. Tabor has a religious nemesis. That man appears to be Apostle Cedric Moss, Pastor of Kingdom Life World Outreach Centre. Apostle Moss called a press conference to lead the charge against the appearance of an American Minister Dr. Juanita Bynum. According to Apostle Moss, Dr. Bynum received a total of 150,000 dollars between two separate occasions for speaking engagements in the country. He said that the amount is said to represent fifty per cent of the offerings collected at the gathering at which she appeared. It appears that Apostle Moss is opposed to Dr. Bynum’s visit and the collections by a foreign preacher of funds. He said that there should be a zero collections policy. He said that he told Bishop Ellis of his concern about the collections policy. He said he had also complained to the President of the Christian Council Bishop Sam Greene.
    This is not new in The Bahamas, division between pastors over the visit of well heeled US pastors. It is also not new the criticism of Bishop Neil Ellis by Apostle Moss. During the general election Apostle Moss attacked Bishop Ellis for going too far into politics by announcing from the pulpit the fact that he was supporting Perry Christie and the PLP for Prime Minister. Many people have argued that the Prime Minister has now been made a captive of the religious lobby in The Bahamas as a result of the patronage by the religious leaders before the election. The Prime Minister has studiously ignored the criticism and continued to appear on preaching platforms and even travelled to the United States since he became Prime Minister to do so.

    Pages concerning Bahamas pastor's concern that she sets fixed exorbitant amounts when she visits there:

    4 pages:

    Church financial exploitation exposed

    Is Revival Here?

    Statement of concern

    A different opinion

    Letters written by Pastor Moss to Juanita Bynum and Bahamian pastors who support her

    Coverage in Bahamas newspaper about churchmen divided tourism preachers from the US

    Pastor Moss responds to accusations of his attitude

    PREACHERS FOR HIRE, PART I

    PREACHERS FOR HIRE, PART 2

    PREACHERS FOR HIRE, PART 3

    Why they vex?

    I also became highly concerned when I started investigating oneness doctrine and TBN connection. See below:

    Does TD Jakes deny the Trinity?

    Troubling statements of doctrine by TBN personalities

    TBN unites oneness with trinitarians

    Oneness

    But my Bible says:
    Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

  • Evacuees Line Up For Debit Cards In Houston

    09/08/2005 3:29:10 PM PDT · 102 of 130
    Prodigal Daughter to jhouston

    Actually I was imagining that the government MIGHT give tax breaks, not trying to insinuate that she was doing it for dubious reasons. If the government gives tax breaks, like they do for charitable donations, people don't look at it as a handout. The apartment owners are taking a risk with their property, and putting lots of hours in the logistics of the offers. I think its a good thing.

  • Evacuees Line Up For Debit Cards In Houston

    09/08/2005 3:25:46 PM PDT · 101 of 130
    Prodigal Daughter to All

    That should have been "some of you all...."

  • Evacuees Line Up For Debit Cards In Houston

    09/08/2005 3:23:03 PM PDT · 99 of 130
    Prodigal Daughter to All
    All but a few:

    After Hurricane Andrew, FEMA mailed thousands of dollars in the forms of disaster relief checks to many people in South Florida who were uninsured, but the Katrina victims don't have access to mailboxes and front porches anymore, and the banks "aren't working", all because several generations of Republican and Democrat politicians and government agencies spent money on other things like a bridge to an Alaskan island, rather than fixing a levee that not only made it possible for stupid people to move there, but also should have been fixed for transporting 25 million tons of grain and five million tons of steel each year.

    I don't know if uninsured people should get handouts in the first place, but its my understanding that the ones who have insurance HAVE TO PAY IT BACK once the insurance kicks in, so in that case, it's fine with me.

    I don't know if giving away money is cost effective, but I know Katrina victims need clothes, food, medicine and they don't have JOBS anymore, but most of them want to work. I spent time working in NoLa, I was one of the few white people working in a large black company and dealing with mostly black people, and canvassing black businesses neighborhoods and I don't remember meeting any that were on welfare of the couple thousand that I met.

    It was stupid to live in New Orleans in the first place, but I guess Barbara Bush should be real popular right now around FR for talking like they are better off for their suffering.

    New Orleans is 3/4 black, and you are all lumping the predominantly law abiding, hard working black people in with some bad apples. Immature racists.

  • Evacuees Line Up For Debit Cards In Houston

    09/08/2005 3:10:19 PM PDT · 93 of 130
    Prodigal Daughter to jhouston
    The announcer said they had a number of "luxury" furnished apartments available in the Palm Beach, Florida area (with free transportation) available for anyone willing to relocate.

    Yeah, So?

    I heard the apartment owners' representative speaking on South Florida radio this week. She was telling other apartment owners in Florida how to get in touch with her so they could form a group of people who wanted to offer their vacant apartments to storm victims TEMPORARILY. It's a PRIVATE sector donation.

    Maybe they will even get a big tax write off for doing it, so it might even BENEFIT them which would be government charity in a way.

  • Israel to rescue cats, dogs from Gaza settlements

    08/21/2005 8:31:40 AM PDT · 14 of 14
    Prodigal Daughter to Mike Darancette; presidio9; Alouette
    There have been reported stories of Muslim taxi drivers who won't allow passengers with guide dogs into their taxis.

    Dog ownership is forbidden in Islam and it gets worse, Muhammad commanded dogs to be killed!:

    Muhammad and Dogs

  • Dobson: Frist Guilty of Betrayal [AMEN!!]

    07/31/2005 12:26:17 PM PDT · 77 of 140
    Prodigal Daughter to conservativecorner
    He's NOT guilty of betrayal. The people who supported him were sleeping on the job. I remember when a Christian got treated like a liar by other freepers years ago for stating the obvious. Bill Frist's election as Senate Majority Leader would represent a stunning setback for pro-life conservatives, By David T. Pyne, December 23, 2002
  • Unfair Firing for 'Miami Herald' Columnist Who Taped Interview? [RE Teele suicide in Miami]

    07/31/2005 9:26:23 AM PDT · 89 of 89
    Prodigal Daughter to summer; debg; browardchad; OldFriend
    Apparently his taping without permission is just a misdemeanor and the state atty. won't be going after him. But what kind of credibility does a reporter have anymore when he admittedly lies to a source? Who is going to talk to him now? He's a liability to any news media source. And apparently he was such a "good friend" of Teele's that he refused to meet with him when Teele was distraught and wanted to get his side heard regarding the sexual allegations made about him by a transvestite prostitute who couldn't remember where he had had sex with Teele or when but was sure he had had sex with Teele.

    Teele kept asserting his innocence so they wanted to demoralize him and the press forgot that he is innocent until proven guilty. Teele got distraught that no one would publish his side of the story. He complained sometime last year that the media would work for weeks assassinating his character and then call him about an hour before it ran to press to ask him if he wanted to refute the story.

    From Local10.com

    DeFede said he spoke to Teele twice Wednesday and that the long-time Miami politician was upset.

    "He mainly called because he wanted to talk to me about the allegations about his homosexual affair, supposedly, that a prison inmate was making against him. You know, he was upset by what that was doing, the impact that was having on his son and he just more wanted to talk about that. He was very emotional and very distraught. He was just trying to reach out at that point," DeFede said.

    DeFede said he recorded his second conversation he had with Teele Wednesday without getting Teele's permission. After Teele killed himself, DeFede said he told his bosses what he had done.

    "It was very upsetting. I thought that their reaction was a bit too severe. The only reason that the Herald knew about the existence of the tape was that I came forward and told them. I realized I had made a mistake and I thought it was not something I should hide," DeFede said.

    Someone on the miami herald forum says that Channel 10 played a tape where Defede said he was too busy to meet with Teele as distraught as Teele was, but he had time to illegally record his conversation

    And another commenter

    This can't be the first time ol Jim has flipped on the tape without telling the other person. This just isn't a "mistake" someone makes for the first time.

    Who else did DeFede illegally record? Why?

    I really hope the state attorney goes after him for this. It's a small crime. But if he did it 20 times, it's a very big deal. What if he did it 50 times? 100? More?

    In my book the only thing worse than a corrupt politician is a hypocritical reporter. Kudos to the Herald for kicking him out.

    Hit the bricks, Jim.

    ---------------------------

    And I'd say if he can't find a job and gets evicted, he can always buy at Crosswinds, they have some condos put aside for low income that only cost $130,000-$300,000 in Overtown where the median income is $13,000.00, most of them elderly who have worked all their lives. This part is not in dispute: Teele said he was not going to have liberal giveaway programs that were like a santa claus to that area but rather wanted to bring in businesses and was in the process, but that wouldn't make millions for the mammon worshippers so Teele was a thorn in their side.

  • Unfair Firing for 'Miami Herald' Columnist Who Taped Interview? [RE Teele suicide in Miami]

    07/30/2005 11:59:37 AM PDT · 87 of 89
    Prodigal Daughter to debg; summer
    You got it. Miami should change its name to Mammon, or SodoMiami, or both. It's changed so dramatically over the years, cursed I call it.

    I'm going to watch Miami channel 17 on Sunday evening at 9:00, a program I heard announced on WWFE 670 a.m. I think the show is in Spanish but when I practice my Spanish, I get some actual news to listen to, not Miami Enquirer--er Herald propaganda. Colonel Matias Farias is going to have a program entitled "Who was Arthur Teele". It looks to be very interesting.

  • Unfair Firing for 'Miami Herald' Columnist Who Taped Interview? [RE Teele suicide in Miami]

    07/30/2005 7:58:49 AM PDT · 83 of 89
    Prodigal Daughter to debg
    and now that the Herald has fired him .. he's a free (and disgruntled) agent. That may come back to bite the Herald in the end.

    I thought about that too. But the other side of that coin may be that he won't bite the Herald because if he doesn't get his job back, he wants another job with another paper and biting the Herald would look back on his resume. (Plus lots of other newspapers are owned by their mother company Knight Ridder anyway)

  • Unfair Firing for 'Miami Herald' Columnist Who Taped Interview? [RE Teele suicide in Miami]

    07/30/2005 7:49:32 AM PDT · 82 of 89
    Prodigal Daughter to tessalu
    You're saying he had an obligation to tape, i.e., an obligation to lie to his source. Well, I'm at least glad that we have proof in black and white that Jim DeFede lies.

    Jim DeFede fired from Herald
    The Miami Herald Thursday, Jul. 28, 2005
    by Jay Weaver

    Metro columnist Jim DeFede said he taped a phone conversation with Art Teele hours before the politician shot himself. Executives said they fired DeFede because taping is illegal without consent. The Herald fired columnist Jim DeFede Wednesday because he tape-recorded a phone conversation with Arthur E. Teele Jr. without his knowledge.

    Teele had killed himself in The Herald's lobby earlier in the day without ever knowing that the columnist recorded their conversation.

    Both Publisher Jesús Díaz Jr. and Executive Editor Tom Fiedler said they fired the popular Metro writer because it is illegal for anyone to tape a conversation with another person without that individual's consent in Florida.

    DeFede told them that during his interview with Teele, he turned on a tape machine to record his conversation as the politician confided in him about his public corruption charges, financial problems and other sensitive issues, according to Díaz.

    At one point, Teele told the columnist that he was not speaking on the record -- but DeFede continued to record him anyway without his knowledge, Díaz said.

    Díaz said that The Herald had no choice but to dismiss DeFede because his conduct was potentially a felony crime and unethical.

    More here borrowed en toto from www.babalublog.com.

    UPDATE: From NBC6.net: "Fired Herald Columnist Speaks Out After Teele's Death." Here's a quote from Mr. Sensitivity:

    In a tense situation I made a mistake. The Miami Herald executives only learned about it because I came to them and admitted it. I told them I was willing to accept a suspension and apologize both to the newsroom and our readers ... The Herald decided on the death penalty instead.

    Nice choice of words, Jim. Way to go!

  • Unfair Firing for 'Miami Herald' Columnist Who Taped Interview? [RE Teele suicide in Miami]

    07/30/2005 6:31:52 AM PDT · 78 of 89
    Prodigal Daughter to tessalu
    Now we know.

    We don't know anything from the tape and we might not ever be told what was on the tape.

  • Unfair Firing for 'Miami Herald' Columnist Who Taped Interview? [RE Teele suicide in Miami]

    07/30/2005 6:26:16 AM PDT · 77 of 89
    Prodigal Daughter to debg
    That's right. From reports I listened to yesterday (Raquel Regalado) and watched on tv (Channel 6 was it?) it seems that there was an hour to 90 minutes of tape because there was a first discussion before his death, and it is speculated (Regalado reported) that the tape tells Teele's side of it, makes accusations against corrupt politicians who were doing the mudslinging against him. I think they fired DeFede not because of any ethical standards (HA HA Miami Herald ethical, that's a joke!) but because he was about to write Teele's side of the story and Teele's mud was real mud, not based on prostitutes' and crack whore's allegations about kickbacks.

    I think Miami Herald is mad there is any taped evidence against their friends and that's why they won't hand over the tape to the police. Teele had a bundle of documents with him when he committed suicide. He gave them to the security guard and it has been reported that the FBI took them. "Muchos gatos encerrados en la politicia Miamense, como siempre"

    I also read in an article somewhere (miaminewtimes I think) that Teele was frustrated as well that things he said to DeFede off the record, ended up on the record. Some friend, some journalist.

  • Unfair Firing for 'Miami Herald' Columnist Who Taped Interview? [RE Teele suicide in Miami]

    07/29/2005 12:01:08 PM PDT · 21 of 89
    Prodigal Daughter to summer
    FYI - Jim Defede is one of the few (and maybe only) FL journalist who actually wrote, at length, about Al Gore's total screw ups in South Florida while Gore campaigned in 2000, and rightfully handed the blame to Gore for those bad decisions Gore made.

    And the Nazis made all the trains run on time.

    Here's a great piece of "work", lies and all, by a real piece of work, Defede:

    Jokes about putting Elian to death and says Lincoln Marti school is anti-Jewish and anti-gay. Funny how Lincoln Marti is named after Lincoln and Jose Marti whose advisor was Jewish.

    Actually DeFede fits right in with the Miami Herald cabal, but they had to make him their fall guy.

  • Breaking: former Miami commissioner Art Teele commited scuicide

    07/29/2005 10:57:12 AM PDT · 70 of 71
    Prodigal Daughter to george wythe
    I doubt it. All the witnesses in the charges against his manhood and his supposed kickbacks are in jail.

    Miami Official Thought Cop Was Stalker in Assault Case

    Dateline: Miami, FL - 3/1/2005

    Miami Herald
    BY SCOTT HIAASEN

    Suspended Miami Commissioner Arthur Teele Jr. took the witness stand on Monday to defend himself at his assault trial, telling a jury that he was trying to enforce the law while an undercover detective he confronted in traffic was acting like a criminal.

    Teele is accused of trying to run the Miami-Dade County officer off the road with his car and making threats after the commissioner spotted the detective -- driving an unmarked SUV -- following his wife.

    Teele told jurors he thought the driver was a stalker pursuing his wife and that he was merely trying to stop the man's vehicle to make a citizen's arrest.

    ''My intent was to stop him, get his identity and call the police and conduct a citizen's arrest,'' Teele testified.

    Though cool and matter-of-fact when questioned by his lawyer, David Garvin, the commissioner was often impatient and confrontational with Assistant State Attorney Richard Scruggs, who said Teele had only to call police if he thought his wife was in danger, not engage in a high-speed chase.

    ''So you can do anything that's necessary now that you're chasing a fleeing felon?'' Scruggs asked.

    The episode began on Aug. 24 after Teele's wife, Stephanie, told her husband she thought she was being stalked, Teele said. That morning, she said she was followed for the second time by a driver of a light-colored SUV.

    Teele said he was skeptical -- until he saw the SUV behind his wife as she drove off from their home.

    'What was going through my mind was, `Stephanie's right; this guy's stalking her,' '' Teele testified. ``I've got to get the police to help.'

    He pulled his car in front of the SUV, driven by Miami-Dade Detective Mark Bullard, and stopped in the road. Teele tried to confront Bullard, who drove up on the sidewalk to avoid revealing the surveillance. That attempt at evasion was a ''breach of the peace'' that required him to pursue, Teele said.

    CHASE ENSUES

    Teele followed the detective in a tense chase threading from central Miami to the Julia Tuttle Causeway to Miami Beach.

    At times, Teele said, he had to hit his brakes to avoid smashing into the detective's vehicle. But Scruggs said Teele recklessly aimed his car at the detective more than once, forcing Bullard to avoid a collision.

    Last week, Bullard told jurors that he had to cross the yellow stripe into oncoming traffic to avoid being hit by Teele's car. Other officers said they saw the same thing.

    Teele denied trying to hit the officer. He said he was mainly behind Bullard, who crossed the yellow line to prevent Teele from catching up to him.

    He accused at least three officers of lying in their testimony about what they saw that day.

    ''Did these detectives conspire against you?'' Scruggs asked.

    ''There are significant elements of their testimony that is false,'' Teele replied.

    On the causeway, Teele confronted the rest of the police surveillance team, who were tailing him as part of a corruption investigation -- a detail that is not known by the jurors in the assault trial.

    Teele told the officers he was ''armed'' and that if they followed his wife again, they had better ``be prepared to start shooting.''

    THREATS, NOT THREATS

    Prosecutors called those statements threats. But Teele insisted to jurors that he did not intend to threaten the officers, and that he did not have a gun. When he said he was ''armed,'' Teele said he was referring to his military training; the 58-year-old commissioner is a decorated Vietnam War veteran.

    The final witnesses in the assault trial are expected to testify today, with closing arguments expected Wednesday.

    After the assault case ends, Teele still faces 10 counts of unlawful compensation arising from accusations that he took kickbacks from a developer receiving contracts from Miami's Community Redevelopment Agency when Teele was the chairman of that agency's board.

  • Breaking: former Miami commissioner Art Teele commited scuicide

    07/29/2005 9:04:49 AM PDT · 68 of 71
    Prodigal Daughter to george wythe; fieldmarshaldj

    Easy to get a person in jail to say something about anybody, especially a transvestite prostitute. I haven't yet heard of one person in Miami who believes those allegations.

  • Breaking: former Miami commissioner Art Teele commited scuicide

    07/29/2005 8:39:19 AM PDT · 67 of 71
    Prodigal Daughter to FreeManWhoCan
    Actually the Miami Cuban radio stations and tv programs are so upset over the suicide and they blame the treatment Teele received at the hands of Miami New Times and Miami Herald,and the corrupt Miami politicians, many of them who are Cubans, that the Cuban community is calling into the programs and saying that Teele was one of the biggest friends that the Cuban community had and that one of his best friends in politics was Tomas Regalado, one of the most pro-Cuban commissioners and personalities in Miami and vice versa.

    Arrogant Cuban politicians in Miami are many, most of them DEMONCRATS! who are now crying like hypocrites over Teele's death. Teele was right.

    On the Maria Elvita Salazar program, Teele was called a hero numerous times for his opposition to the Mammon worshipping politicians and developers. Cuban Maria Elvita said without Teele, who will we have to fight for the poor and the middle class that can't afford to live in the New Miami real estate? Not many people sound convinced that he was guilty of what they are charging him of. The other politicians in town on the other hand.....

    Colonel Matias Farias, (Cuban) of Lapoderosa.com WWFE 670 AM said on his radio program last night that it was a cabal between the developers who wanted to take over Overtown and Liberty City and displace the poor and middle class for their $400,000 condominiums that only rich people can afford and the corrupt politicians and reporters who wanted to humiliate Teele personally and kill him politically and ruin him financially because he was opposed to their plans of taking over every area in Miami for the rich, and this one hit his constituents.

    Colonel Farias made this point: Teele was absolved of charges in the first court case and now they were alleging he took cutbacks of $59,000, but what about the 330 million dollars and greater sums that have been lost by other prominent politicians in Miami and the money trails lead to prominent companies who are still doing business in Miami as if nothing happened. No charges ever filed. They had it out for Teele and want us to believe that with his well known SoFla face, he was kissing a girl in public at the Metrorail and the testimony of a transvestite prostitute in jail.

    Most Cubans in this town loved Arthur Teele, decorated Vietnam vet, and defender of the poor.

    Some comments on the condolences page of the online Miami Herald.

    July 28, 2005 Art: Thanks for carrying the flag for the working folks in the world and the less fortunate people. Who did you appoint to keep the struggle going strong? Thanks for trying to help us. Robert Martin (Fort lauderdale, FL )

    July 28, 2005 No matter the veil of public scrutiny, we knew Arthur as the kind, loving, generous and committed spirit that he truly was. He uplifted the down trodden, spoke kindly (and listened) to the voiceless. He was a champion of the poor, and sword against their oppressor. He has paid the ultimate price - he deserves our enternal respect. Rest peacefully. . .and well. Thank you. Darryl Gorham, Friend Darryl Gorham (Tallahassee, FL )

    July 28, 2005 Dear Mrs. Teele and family,

    I will always remember Arthur Teele because of his sincere love for the people of Overtown and especially the children. Four Novembers ago, Miami Rescue Mission held a Grand Opening and Dedication of the new Community Activity Center, with programs for "at risk" children and youth of the Overtown area. Mr.Teele was the only elected politician that responded to the formal invitation that was sent out. I will never forget the inspired challenge that Commissioner Teele delivered to the young people and adults that filled the gym that stormy afternoon. He concluded his remarks with these words;"I am a very busy man, but I just had to come here today and thank you for what you are doing in the community and to encourage these beautiful young people. May God bless your work. Although you are just accross the border from my district, by a few feet, you are serving the people in my district and I thank you."

    I will remember and thank God for the good that Arthur Teele Jr. did in his life time. I am my staff join hearts and hands in asking God's comfort and blessing upon you and your family.

    Dr. Franklin M.Jacobs President
    Miami Rescue Mission

    July 28, 2005 I, like Art, served as a Black officer in Vietnam. I came to know him when we were both captains at Ft. Bragg, NC. He was such a positive example for young Black troops. As aide-de-camp for Lt. General Westmoreland, Art had the contacts and power to help other, less fortunate Black soldiers and he did, every chance that he got.

    There weren't many like him then; there aren't any like him now. I'll always remember the good that he did and encourage you to do so.

    Rest in peace, my Brother.
    Oliver Melvin (clearwater, FL )

    July 28, 2005 The Cuban American National Foundation wishes to express heartfelt condolences to the family of Commissioner Arthur Teele. You are in our thoughts and prayers during these very difficult times. Commissioner Teele's service on behalf of our country and community will never be forgotten. Alfredo Mesa (Miami, FL )

    Local10.com Indicted Commissioner: 'I've Done Nothing Wrong' Former Official Facing Federal Fraud, Money Laundering Charges

    POSTED: 12:52 pm EDT July 22, 2005

    MIAMI -- Former Commissioner Arthur Teele, who is charged with mail and wire fraud and money laundering, was in federal court Friday morning.

    Former Commissioner Arthur Teele Teele pleaded not guilty to the charges, and then spoke exclusively to Local 10 reporter Rad Berky, telling him, "I've done nothing wrong."

    "My relationship with every client that I have ever had in that is in Miami-Dade County is that I will not be involved in any matter relating to local government," Teele said.

    Teele is accused of helping minority company win more than $20 million worth of electrical contracts at Miami International Airport, when the work ended up actually being done by a much larger, non-minority company.

    Teele's attorney, David Garvin, said, "The commissioner was not part of any improper scheme. Period."

    Teele said he was acting as an attorney-consultant in the deal where FLP Enterprises, a small firm in Little Haiti, was awarded the multimillion-dollar contract. Officials say all of the employees of FLP were actually employees of Fisk Electrical, a much larger non-minority-owned company.

    Teele told Berky that he did nothing wrong in the deal

    "It's totally disclosed. My relationship in both cases involved matters outside of Miami-Dade County," Teele said.

    Both electrical companies are in Miami-Dade County, as is the airport, but Teele did not offer any further explanation of his statement.

    Teele was convicted in March of threatening a Miami-Dade police officer and is on probation.* He is also awaiting trial on other fraud charges in state court.

    *(Plainclothes police officer that he thought was a stalker following his wife).

    Copyright 2005 by Local10.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

    Media focus on Teele's personal life upset him, friends say His life ended in a press frenzy, but Arthur Teele's friends said he felt for years that he was under assault from vicious media.

    The Teele conspiracy

  • Thousands Gather to Celebrate Megachurch's New Home in Basketball Arena

    07/19/2005 2:00:07 PM PDT · 272 of 272
    Prodigal Daughter to WestPoint90
    My point was: There is nothing unique about Joel Osteen telling husbands to ask their wives to give them two areas to work on, sorry. I grew up in a liberal Christian denomination with a social gospel (starts with an E) and there were plenty of sermons on marriage that I remember. Plenty of unbelieving men would not only wash their wives' feet, but would even give their lives for their women and children.

    If a modern day man calls himself a Christian and doesn't sacrifice himself for his believing wife, he hasn't bothered reading the Bible and surrendering his will to the Father's. Depending on an intermediary is a symptom not a solution.

    Liberal Christianity is broad way Christianity, part truth and part poison. Sin isn't condemned and if it is talked about, it's called a "mistake". Joel Osteen may give some positive reinforcements, but he doesn't condemn sin. He told millions of people all over the world that he does not call abortionists "sinners".

    In John 16. Jesus said that He would send the Comforter unto us to reprove the world of sin, righteousness and judgment.

    Reprove: 1651 elegcho el-eng'-kho

    of uncertain affinity; to confute, admonish:--convict, convince, tell a fault, rebuke, reprove.

    The salty saints

    Corrosive Christianity

  • Thousands Gather to Celebrate Megachurch's New Home in Basketball Arena

    07/18/2005 10:34:57 AM PDT · 259 of 272
    Prodigal Daughter to mariabush
    Discerning and judging rightly is what you are doing.

    Judge Rightly is not Some Guy's Name

    In the 1960's Paris Reidhead gave a sermon which was referred to as the sermon of the century. I don't think most people can stand to hear it today.

    Ten Shekels and a Shirt

  • Thousands Gather to Celebrate Megachurch's New Home in Basketball Arena

    07/18/2005 9:39:00 AM PDT · 258 of 272
    Prodigal Daughter to mariabush

    Right!

  • Thousands Gather to Celebrate Megachurch's New Home in Basketball Arena

    07/18/2005 8:54:59 AM PDT · 256 of 272
    Prodigal Daughter to mariabush
    To: streetpreacher

    I would have told them the same thing that I would hae asked any person at any time. If you were to die today, where would you spend eternity?

    Don't ask Joel because he doesn't know!

    KING: Because we've had ministers on who said, your record don't count. You either believe in Christ or you don't. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don't no matter what you've done in your life, you ain't.

    OSTEEN: Yeah, I don't know. There's probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you're a believer in God, you're going to have some good works. I think it's a cop-out to say I'm a Christian but I don't ever do anything ...

    KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

    OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

    KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

    OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus. -------------------------

    But it's funny, he knows "it takes money to do good." Hilarious! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.html

  • Thousands Gather to Celebrate Megachurch's New Home in Basketball Arena

    07/18/2005 8:23:41 AM PDT · 255 of 272
    Prodigal Daughter to WestPoint90
    He has actually challenged men to ask their wives to give them 2 areas that they could work on to be a better husband.

    Most agnostics are better husbands than that! Modern day Phariseeism making traditions of men and trying to trump the commandments of Jesus to take the easy way out.

    Jesus commanded in Ephesians 5:25:

    Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

    Osteen wrote a book about finding your best life now. Jesus said you will lose your life if you find it.

    Mt 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

    This is so obvious I feel silly posting it.

  • Raw milk stirs Prohibition-style fervor

    07/10/2005 8:01:48 PM PDT · 58 of 126
    Prodigal Daughter to DuckFan4ever

    It has worked for the Amish all these years!

  • Cornell University gives money to Africana building

    05/02/2005 6:59:51 AM PDT · 12 of 16
    Prodigal Daughter to Behind Liberal Lines
    True. But at least they have some men in Ithaca, and a kosher dining hall at Cornell. But I'll grant you, Ithaca is evil.

    Most universities are governed by evil spiritual principalities. Even MIT is anti-ROTC and started that petition to boycott Israel, or something like that.

  • Cornell University gives money to Africana building

    05/02/2005 6:49:46 AM PDT · 9 of 16
    Prodigal Daughter to Behind Liberal Lines
    I was in Northampton and couldn't tell who were men and who were women. Turned out the men were women. Half of them were pushing baby carriages or carrying their adopted toddlers by the hand. At least Ithaca has Moosewood. Northampton is a disease. Greetings from Northampton
  • Cornell University gives money to Africana building

    05/02/2005 6:47:09 AM PDT · 8 of 16
    Prodigal Daughter to Behind Liberal Lines

    I'm sorry to say, it could even top that. Okay maybe it's a tie.

  • Cornell University gives money to Africana building

    05/02/2005 6:41:59 AM PDT · 5 of 16
    Prodigal Daughter to Behind Liberal Lines

    Last year, Bill Clinton spoke at Cornell commencement. The students voted for him to be their speaker. But actually, Northampton, Massachusetts, home of Smith College, is the real City of Evil.

  • Little room for sex offenders

    04/30/2005 8:07:06 PM PDT · 19 of 19
    Prodigal Daughter to Brilliant
    Correction. I said: "If a pedophile moved in, he would probably be a Saudi prince." should be "If a heterosexual pedophile moved in, he would probably be a Saudi prince."
  • Little room for sex offenders

    04/30/2005 6:30:46 PM PDT · 16 of 19
    Prodigal Daughter to TWohlford; Brilliant
    In 2005, they have little room for sex offenders, because since at least 1997, they are already full of them:

    Public-Sex Issue Threatens to Open a Pandora's Box of Civil Liberties

    The Miami Herald, Inc.; Sunday, February 9, 1997
    Eugene J. Patron Herald Writer

    Sex is something almost everyone agrees is a private and personal thing. And yet people never seem to tire of making sex and sexual practices a public issue. Discussions about sex -- sex with whom, how, where, when and why -- abound in courtroom dramas and are plastered on tabloid headlines. Lately, however, the subject took center stage at a Miami Beach City Commission meeting.

    While the vast majority of gay men in Miami do not have sex in public places, it is common knowledge in the gay community that Flamingo Park is a popular "cruising" area where men meet men late at night and, often enough, have sex. Or, at least, that was the way it used to be before the current campaign to end public sex in the park.

    Last January, after police raids on gay nightclubs, gay community members met with city officials to soothe relations. As part of these meetings, a Gay and Lesbian Community Agenda task force was formed. One issue raised by the police: They were getting complaints from people living in the Flamingo Park area about men having sex in the park at night. The police asked the task force if the gay community would do something to address the problem.

    After months of discussions, the task force in November began distributing fliers to men in or around the park with the snappy title What You Do is Your Business, Where You Do it is Ours. The fliers went on to warn that starting in early December, police would begin to arrest those found illegally loitering in the park.

    To no one's great surprise, men pushed out of the park began circulating in the nearby alleyways and driving in their cars around parking lots adjacent to the park. In response, the crackdown on illegal loitering was expanded to these areas.

    Speaking at a Miami Beach Commission meeting last month, task force leader Gary Knight urged commissioners to convert the parking adjacent to Flamingo into residential parking only at night. This, he said, would stop men who drive over from Miami looking for sex. Commissioners put off the request for a later meeting after receiving the wrong maps from the city's parking department and hearing a number of comments from residents who are both in favor and against the proposal.

    Why gay men have a taste for public sex has both historical and psychological roots. Before homosexuality was decriminalized, it was illegal to operate an establishment catering to homosexuals. So, for many men, the only way to meet one another was in certain public areas (gay women tend to socialize in more private circles).

    Today, with numerous gay bars and clubs, that need for men to meet in public has greatly diminished. But for many, the thrill of meeting men in public, and even having sex in public, remains.

    The laws against having sex in public are plain. However, laws about loitering have always raised serious questions about civil liberties. Being caught with your pants down is one thing. Being stopped, questioned and arrested for walking near the park at night is something else.

    Certainly, the majority of men walking around alleys near Flamingo Park at 3 a.m. probably have another, more lewd intent, than supposedly looking for a lost cat. Yet that does not reduce the police's needs to be judicious with their power to make on-the-spot calls of where the line between personal freedoms and personal interest lies.

    This issue of individuals being judged by intent, as opposed to their actions, has great historical precedent for gays and lesbians. Before World War II, it was rare to think of a group of people linked together by their sexuality. Men or women were labeled as deviants or perverts when caught in the act of having sex with someone of the same gender.

    Then, during the war, military psychologists began screening military personnel and booting thousands from the service for fitting the dubious psychological profile of a homosexual. Suddenly, a new class of people was born, one that was not based on their actions, but on their presumed intent. In effect, gay people were not allowed to define who they were for themselves, but told in unflattering terms: This is who you are.

    For both the gay community and the city of Miami Beach, the issue of public sex and having men chasing men around alleyways and parking lots has become more than just an embarrassment. It threatens to open a Pandora's box of civil liberties that could be divisive.

    If the problem is public sex, then those caught in the act should be charged accordingly. But feeding people's suspicions of one another need not be exacerbated by creating boundaries around public spaces where people of differing sexualities have their freedoms held on a shorter leash than others. If the goal is to get sex back in the bedroom, then let's not make it a political football and get everyone in on the game.

    Keep it safe

    The South Beach AIDS project will present a workshop "Lovers and Safer Sex" where gay couples can talk about safer sex at 8 p.m. Monday at the Loading Zone, 1426A Alton Rd. (behind Dominos Pizza). SoBap's HIV+ social hour will be held from 9 to 11 p.m. Wednesday at Swirl, 1049 Washington Ave. Call 532-1033 for info on both events.

    Happy together

    Noted gay author Eric Marcus is writing a book titled The Happy Gay Marriage (Anchor/Doubleday, mid-1998). Long-term (nine-plus years) gay and lesbian couples interested in being interviewed should e-mail Marcus at Lgcouples(AT_SIGN)aol.com.

    Out and Around is a column about gay and lesbian life in South Florida. Eugene J. Patron is a freelance writer. Material can be faxed to him at 868-4466 or e-mailed at epatron@aksi.net.

  • Little room for sex offenders

    04/30/2005 6:12:19 PM PDT · 14 of 19
    Prodigal Daughter to Brilliant
    HILARIOUS! Miami-Dade County is such a twilight zone. I used to live in South Beach, but now since it became SoBe, only the rich can afford to live there anymore. If a pedophile moved in, he would probably be a Saudi prince.

    Perversion in SodoMiami though, why the epicenter is SoBe!

    Miami Dade taxpayers are forced to fund the Winter Party and the White Party via the Miami Dade Tourism Bureau. The two annual week long parties are described as "beach parties where 5,000 (this year they say they expect 10,000) scantily clad buff bodies dance to the beat of the music on Miami’s Sex-tac-u-lar South Beach. But hey that goes on in South Beach every day of the year!

    See what goes on at the beach in front of the little kiddies who live there! Hope the nannies (who probably work for two daddies) close the windows of the beach condos for the sake of the children!