Free Republic

You may want to find out what drugs your doctor can prescribe you for paranoia.

Maybe he'll prescribe a lobotomy, then I can be just like you.

Tuor

I always thought it was funny how an observer could see numerous examples where the show incorporated material things, ideas, or traditions (including some from Eastern religions) but never could include a thing about the Christian tradition.

They did, but only in the old 'classic' Star Trek. Too bad the old Trek didn't have the tech to produce the sort of FX that ST:NG did.

Tuor

There will likely be an extensive public information campaign to help Americans "digest" (as the president said) the plan and their options.

Translation: The state propaganda machine will be working overtime for a while.

Tuor

"Star Trek is an ideal bellwether of our times," said Robert Kozinets, an assistant professor of marketing at the Kellogg School who has been studying Star Trek consumer behavior since 1995. "Right now, it is expressing American society's hunger for a sense of direction, of right and wrong, good and evil.

Haven't any of these dumb butts heard of the Bible?

It isn't that they lack direction, it is that they reject the directions provided them.

Tuor

In other words, the two major parties are fighting, not cooperating at every level to pursue a single goal.

They don't have to cooperate at every level, they just have to cooperate in the main, which they do. That was my point. There are *cosmetic* differences between the parties, which is how they get people to buy into it, but ultimately they seek the same thing, and appear to have chosen to seek it together (for the moment).

Tuor

Did you MISS the whole warfare between Bush and the Senate over judgeships and legislation during the last 18 months?

Fundamentally unimportant.

You don't stop an oncoming flood by throwing pebbles at it.

Tuor

Don't expect these FR clowns I've flagged, -- who ~claim~ themselves to be 'conservatives', -- to answer that question.

It's not about conservative/liberal or right/left anymore. It is about totalitarianism/liberty now. It is about overwhelming government power versus small limited government.

The Right and Left have joined forces towards a single goal: power. I suppose that once they've achieved that goal by taking it from the people, they will return to fighting amongst themselves, but the people will remain disenfranchised.

Tuor

I'm talking about the apartment bombings in the Moscow area in 1999, not the latest hostage-taking event, which obviously was indeed done by Chechens.

You know, I sometimes wonder what we would do if some powerful force -- say aliens with advanced tech, for example -- landed and took over our country, eliminated our form of government, and proceded to do whatever they wanted. Let us say this force was so powerful that our every attempt at military action was simply obliterated to the point that we no longer had an effective military.

Hmm, what would we do? Would we just give up? Throw in the towel? I doubt it, but it is easy to condemn when we're fat, happy, and the most powerful nation on Earth.

Tuor

And how 'bout that "sad plight" of them Kosovar Albanians? A real tragedy, huh?

You mean the Kosovar Serbs? It is *their* land, after all. Or perhaps you mean the result on Serbs and Albanians alike of the US bombing of the region, which probably killed more people than the Serb-Albanian tit-for-tat did?

Oh yeah, we were on the side of the Muslims on that one. But America right or wrong, eh?

Tuor

It is not that the Russians are oppressing them anymore than any other people, its just that the Russians won't let them rob and kidnap and murder with impunity.

Read some history on the subject, then come back to me when you get a clue.

Tuor

Clear. You can see for miles. However, there's a report of an ignorance front coming in from afar.

Russia staged its own '9/11'.

An apartment manager saw a truck unloading bags into the basement parking area of his apartment complex. He called the local police and they showed up. The bags were filled with yellowish granular material and the ones unloading it were identified as members of the Russian Interior Department (or whatever it is the KGB are called these days).

Shortly thereafter, the evidence aquired by the local police was confiscated by the Feds and the apartment manager and local police were told that it was a *drill*, and that the bags were really full of sugar, not explosives, and that they had done very well in noticing and reporting what was happening.

The above was reported in some major Russian papers.

The Russians staged their own 9/11 to gain support for an invasion of oil-rich Chechnya, which had claimed and maintained its independance. There has never been any evidence provided to support the claim that Chechen rebels staged the bombings.

Tuor

Ten years ago, there was little deeply Islamic about them. The high Caucasus mountains were converted to Islam only in the 16th century, and their law was that of the tribe and the clan, not of the Koran and the Sunna. No woman went veiled.

Too bad many people, including many here on FR, will not realize the above fact. It saddens me the way statism has taken over the site, so that The Law, lawfulness, and obedience to authority is more important than freedom, liberty, and what is right.

I have supported the Chechen's attempts at freedom ever since I heard about their plight. I wish them luck in their attempts to regain their long-lost independance.

The worst thing we can do in this situation is to provide *any* aid to the Russians against the Chechens. The Chechens would not forgive or forget that, and they are *much* more nasty than the Saudi Muslim terrorists.

Tuor

I'm sure the Russians didn't intentionally kill their own people.

I'm sure they did. Just as they did when they blew up their own apartment buildings in Moscow and blamed it on Chechen rebels.

Tuor

Russian Special Forces: 116 Civilians (and counting)
Chechan Rebels: 2 Civilians

Russian Special Forces win.

Tuor

China is a threat to the US. Are we talking about going to war with them? There are lots of threats to the US. The question is whether he is an immediate threat to the US.

Gassing his own people: the Kurds are *not* his own people, they merely live in territory he controls. Take a look at how Turkey is dealing with this very same ethnic group -- do you hear us complaining to the Turkish government about it?

I don't believe Saddam is supporting terrorism, though I can be convinced otherwise and have heard some evidence that makes me think that he might be, but nothing conclusive.

The election in Iraq: Lots of nations do the very same thing, including Pakistan, which is our supposed ally in our War on Terrorism.

Going back to DU: Maybe you should take a look at how long I've been here -- longer than you by far, and longer than DU (which I've never been to) has been around.

Tuor

On March 5 he fled the country and has been living in Baghdad under Saddam's protection ever since. He was interviewed on 60 minutes on June 2 2002. So we can say that Iraq is harboring a terrorist.

This is the only citation which I feel has any bearing on the overall matter of attacking Iraq. It seems to have been verified (though not in a court of law, of course). We should tell Iraq to hand this man over or suffer the consequences, much as we told the Taliban to do with Bin Laden, and with the same results for non-compliance.

Tuor

Nobody really cares what you want.

Do you think I'm alone in this? If I were, you're right: no one would care. But I'm not alone in this, and you almost certainly know that.

And why shouldn't people care about what I want? Don't I have a hand in running the country? Isn't that the whole point of democracy? Don't you think We the People have a duty to keep an eye on the activities of the governments who are supposed to serve us (not the other way around)?

You might as well say: No one cares what Martin Luther King has to say (not that I'm claiming similarity to his stature by any means) because he is only one man, one voice, one vote. However, he spoke for others, and provided an inspiration for many. I may not be in anything like the same league as MLK, but the premise is the same: individuals ought to speak out if they feel something is wrong. They ought to make their opinions known. You are very free to listen or to blow me off. If no one cares, then no one does, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't speak out anyway, even in this limited sort of fashion.

Your comment seems to me to be a sort of off-handed way of stiffling any dissention. That seems to me to be un-American, as we cherish the right of other people voicing their opinions, even if we disagree with them. Happily, I'll do what I feel best regardless of whether you, or anyone else, cares about what I have to say.

Tuor

If you are that distrustful of the administration, any "hard evidence" they produce you are likely to consider fabricated.

You may well be right. I may feel that whatever evidence they provide will be like the movie Capricorn One, where the government fabricated a trip to Mars. As you said, they could do this. Hopefully, any evidence provided will be something that can be verified by a third party.

It is a quandry that has caused me intellectual problems, because I *want* to know the truth, and if the truth is that Iraq truly is a threat, then I *want* us to go in and wipe out that threat, even if it means obliterating all of Iraq.

If it were only myself who felt this way, it would be something that the rest of you could easily write off: who cares if one man disagrees with our national policies? But I think it likely that there are many who feel similar to the way I do. It is not one person whistling in the dark, but several -- how many I do not know.

How can the government regain our trust? Not just my trust, but the trust of those who only half-believe what they are told? How can the cynicism which increasingly is gripping this country be abated? Only by repeatedly demonstrating honesty in its conduct, I would guess, and that doesn't seem likely to me. When everyone in government appears to only care about their personal (or by extension party) power, and not what is best for the country, it is only natural that many will come to the conclusion that they cannot be trusted.

I'm not just distrustful of the administration, but of government in general, and the federal government in particular. I guess this makes me a whacko and a paranoid. In my mind, it makes me realistic and clear-sighted: I do not cling to a false optimism about what our government is really trying to do. OTOH, it is very possible that I am excessively negative when someone in government (rarely) actually tries to do their job honestly. We all make trade-offs based on our worldview. I accept those I've had to make.

Tuor

We have already had one Pearl Harbor in this war. Do we need a separate disaster for each target we choose to strike? What if Germany had not declared war on the United States after we declared war on Japan in 1941? Would Roosevelt have been morally obligated to only go to war against Japan and do nothing to stop Hitler, even if such a course of action would mean letting the Nazis get the bomb?

Really? I must've missed the part where a foreign military attacked us. You know, with their own uniforms, planes, etc., and working for a government we could declare war against.

We declared war against Germany because they made no secret they were allied with Japan, unlike WWI where there were lots of secret treaties that ended up sucking all of Europe into a war over something relatively minor.

Comparing our actions today against those of the US at the start of WWII is a bad comparison. These are terrorists, not soldiers. They are more similar to pirates than enemy combatants, and should be treated similarly. Letters of Marque should be reinstated, and any government that *knowingly* gives them harbor should be dealt with agressively. The Taliban, for example, signed their own warrant by giving shelter to the Al-Queda, the media's blurring of the two organizations notwithstanding.

Our actions towards Iraq has virtually nothing to do with the attacks against us on 9/11. If you want to convince me we need to attack Iraq, you'll have to do so on other grounds, such as an imminant attack by Iraq using chemicals or biologicals (as they don't possess any nukes).

Tuor

As a proud owner of the Led Zepplin 10-CD Box set, I implore the band members: Don't do this. Try to save some dignity and not be like the Rolling Stones, or the Grateful Dead, or any of those loser 80's bands that are now playing old songs in smarmy casinos.

You went out on top (well, except John Bonham) -- stay that way.

Tuor